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#31
12-15-2005, 04:04 AM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 3) It's a kill pot. Before the cards are dealt, the leader of their group whispers to the guy on his right (one of his friends) to 'bump it up'. Leader, who is UTG, raises, his friend to his right re-raises. [/ QUOTE ] His friend is in the big blind, right? Were there callers in between? It's not collusion to agree to raise or 3-bet without looking at your cards. The other two examples you gave, if they're not "jokes", are examples of team play or collusion. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I tried fixing my OP, but it was too late. The guy who said to bump it up was UTG, his friend was directly to his LEFT. The kill was on the button. . [/ QUOTE ] It's still ok to multiple blind straddle even in a kill pot. b 
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#32
12-15-2005, 04:09 AM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 3) It's a kill pot. Before the cards are dealt, the leader of their group whispers to the guy on his right (one of his friends) to 'bump it up'. Leader, who is UTG, raises, his friend to his right re-raises. [/ QUOTE ] His friend is in the big blind, right? Were there callers in between? It's not collusion to agree to raise or 3-bet without looking at your cards. The other two examples you gave, if they're not "jokes", are examples of team play or collusion. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I tried fixing my OP, but it was too late. The guy who said to bump it up was UTG, his friend was directly to his LEFT. The kill was on the button. . [/ QUOTE ] It's still ok to multiple blind straddle even in a kill pot. b [/ QUOTE ] What they did was NOT a 'blind straddle'. In a blind straddle, everyone knows that the bet has been placed prior to the cards being dealt. Having a secret plan between two players to raise and re-raise is NOT a blind straddle, it's collusion. I just happened to overhear the 'bump it up' comment. If they had announced to the table what they were planning on doing, that would be a different matter. But that wasn't the case - I overheard the guy whispering to his friend. So, they had a plan prior to the cards being dealt to give the illusion to the rest of the table that they had two very strong hands - which would on most occassions allow them to 'buy' the kill pot. What took place here bears absolutely no resemblance to a blind straddle.
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#33
12-15-2005, 04:19 AM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 3) It's a kill pot. Before the cards are dealt, the leader of their group whispers to the guy on his right (one of his friends) to 'bump it up'. Leader, who is UTG, raises, his friend to his right re-raises. [/ QUOTE ] His friend is in the big blind, right? Were there callers in between? It's not collusion to agree to raise or 3-bet without looking at your cards. The other two examples you gave, if they're not "jokes", are examples of team play or collusion. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I tried fixing my OP, but it was too late. The guy who said to bump it up was UTG, his friend was directly to his LEFT. The kill was on the button. . [/ QUOTE ] It's still ok to multiple blind straddle even in a kill pot. b [/ QUOTE ] What they did was NOT a 'blind straddle'. In a blind straddle, everyone knows that the bet has been placed prior to the cards being dealt. Having a secret plan between two players to raise and re-raise is NOT a blind straddle, it's collusion. I just happened to overhear the 'bump it up' comment. If they had announced to the table what they were planning on doing, that would be a different matter. But that wasn't the case - I overheard the guy whispering to his friend. So, they had a plan prior to the cards being dealt to give the illusion to the rest of the table that they had two very strong hands - which would on most occassions allow them to 'buy' the kill pot. What took place here bears absolutely no resemblance to a blind straddle. [/ QUOTE ] Realize when confronting the floor, the much better part of your complaint is the other stuff that happened during a hand that you described. THOSE are the strong point of your argument that should stand alone w/o even bringing this preflop situation up. Simply because this situation can be seen as speculative as now you have to see if everyone else heard them and it's big mess as many might not have even paid attention if they said it out loud anyways. If they're not going to do something about the other, more blatant stuff, they sure aren't going to do something about this. b
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#34
12-15-2005, 07:46 AM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
As far as the rules go, how is the "bump it up" comment before the cards were dealt any different than a group showing up at a table with the intention of magoo-ing it up and 5-betting everything in sight? Serious question. I agree that the way the floor handled this situation was pretty bad. [/ QUOTE ] The difference is that your group of magoos is 5-betting everything, not just the selected hands when they decide it is to there advantage.
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#35
12-15-2005, 08:01 AM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] As far as the rules go, how is the "bump it up" comment before the cards were dealt any different than a group showing up at a table with the intention of magoo-ing it up and 5-betting everything in sight? Serious question. I agree that the way the floor handled this situation was pretty bad. [/ QUOTE ] The difference is that your group of magoos is 5-betting everything, not just the selected hands when they decide it is to there advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Again, it's not really to their advantage if everyone at the table hears it ahead of time. I mean, what if guys just say that every kill pot they will straddle and restraddle? Big whoop. b
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#36
12-15-2005, 08:14 AM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As far as the rules go, how is the "bump it up" comment before the cards were dealt any different than a group showing up at a table with the intention of magoo-ing it up and 5-betting everything in sight? Serious question. I agree that the way the floor handled this situation was pretty bad. [/ QUOTE ] The difference is that your group of magoos is 5-betting everything, not just the selected hands when they decide it is to there advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Again, it's not really to their advantage if everyone at the table hears it ahead of time. I mean, what if guys just say that every kill pot they will straddle and restraddle? Big whoop. b [/ QUOTE ] Again, they weren't announcing it to the table that they were raising it up. I overheard them whispering. Your example is irrelevant, since that's not at all how it happened.
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#37
12-15-2005, 10:43 AM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
I have read the posts and understand your concern. The floor handled it very poorly and I actually play in this casino. I played in the 10/20 or 20/40 if it went and play much higher elsewhere. Saying this, my friend and I actually got accused of colluding. It was the farthest from the truth and actually play very tough on each other, I think b/c we were good friends and not regulars they instantly though we cheated. I really think your concern is not much of one in that typical 2/4 game. I have asked people if they are going to call if they are behind and I would have just punished them for raising w/ their weak hands.
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#38
12-15-2005, 12:30 PM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As far as the rules go, how is the "bump it up" comment before the cards were dealt any different than a group showing up at a table with the intention of magoo-ing it up and 5-betting everything in sight? Serious question. I agree that the way the floor handled this situation was pretty bad. [/ QUOTE ] The difference is that your group of magoos is 5-betting everything, not just the selected hands when they decide it is to there advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Again, it's not really to their advantage if everyone at the table hears it ahead of time. I mean, what if guys just say that every kill pot they will straddle and restraddle? Big whoop. b [/ QUOTE ] If you are not in one of those places where you can straddle from any position that would be correct, but if you are in a place where you can only straddle from UTG you can't do this.
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#39
12-15-2005, 02:12 PM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As far as the rules go, how is the "bump it up" comment before the cards were dealt any different than a group showing up at a table with the intention of magoo-ing it up and 5-betting everything in sight? Serious question. I agree that the way the floor handled this situation was pretty bad. [/ QUOTE ] The difference is that your group of magoos is 5-betting everything, not just the selected hands when they decide it is to there advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Again, it's not really to their advantage if everyone at the table hears it ahead of time. I mean, what if guys just say that every kill pot they will straddle and restraddle? Big whoop. b [/ QUOTE ] If you are not in one of those places where you can straddle from any position that would be correct, but if you are in a place where you can only straddle from UTG you can't do this. [/ QUOTE ] Sure you can. Minor semantics. You can announce to the table that you are going to raise no matter what when the action gets to you prior to the cards being dealt. You just have to wait for your turn to act. This was an issue I had to explain to a dealer coming off the 2+2 table last year over the holidays when they took over a 3-6 table. b
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#40
12-15-2005, 02:35 PM
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Re: Potowatomi collusion
I have a feeling that if you happened to be the poor bastard who sat at a 2p2 table you might confusion jokes + pointless aggro for a lot of things that are worse than you thought. I feel like this story may be missing a lot of important context that the OP may simply not have.
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