I open 72o UTG get 3bet by tiltboy and call down my bottom pair.

[Baulucky]

OK. Sorry you didn't get my one word answer.

How about this: "If you fold 72o UTG preflop, you'll forego all the philosophical questions and analysis that you are asking about the postflop. If you do not fold it you will need to Inherit a large fortune to finance your poker addiction".

[climber]

OK preflop sucks. thats fine.
Now onto postflop.

Let me rephrase so you can participate Baulucky. Same table, same players, same reads. I open with 77 UTG

Preflop--I open, tiltboy 3-bets, SB calls 2.5 cold, I call
Flop: comes 2 6 T r (1 heart)--I bet, tiltboy raises, SB calls 2. I call.
Turn: K h--SB checks, I check, tiltboy bets...

Same questions as I asked above.
Can you help now?

Your right I could somehow inherit lots of money and then I wouldnt need to learn to play poker well. On the other hand i could jsut learn to play well postflop and then I wouldn't need worry about trying to displace my existing parents who I like very much.

[chaosuk]

Ignore the idiots. Your question is valid. Some people here need a lesson in logic at no point did you conclude that:

[ QUOTE ]
'that the best play is to raise UTG with 72!'


[/ QUOTE ]

you simply painted a picture & said what you did, you didn't justify it. Nor did you suggest that you regularly do it. I'm pretty sure at sometime or another I've raised 10-handed with something garbage like 72o UTG. I've seen plenty of winning players who don't need to 'inherit' make this play. In fact I'd there is a case to prefer it UTG than say UTG +3 since most of the 'hand-value' lies in picking up the blinds, or getting just the BB to call & fold tamely - UTG is the best place to elicit that combinational response. Though the implied-value (meta to some) lies in getting it shown down, or showing it as the winning hand - and you must show it if you get the chance. In fact its the implied/meta value, that makes the one-off raise with 7-2 UTG better, imo, than doing so later/stealing positions.

Anyway, it is important to know how to play off the map, very important, since many of us of us find ourselves in awful positons where we've made crap decisions from time to time; and it is a pretty bad decision, but it doesn't make you a bad player.

I think in the end you just go the whole way. You've very likely got 5 outs on the river, so its a call. And once you're there you have plenty of odds to call a maniac who could just be banging away with Ax.

I'm not too enamoured with the attempted-isolation bet on the flop. I'd check call and prlly call the turn after SB folds, as his hand could be much weaker in this scenario, then after the flop in the real scenario (where you might expect him to slow down on the turn with the CC from the SB).


chaos

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is on major tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I pick up black 72 UTG and open.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's on tilt?

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is on major tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I pick up black 72 UTG and open.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's on tilt?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks so much for your constructive input.

To answer your question...He is the one on tilt--this becomes relevant postflop. I stated quite clearly in my post that he is tilting by raising too loosely and bluffing and betting too much. I also explained that I didn't want him to come along when I made this raise. I am not on tilt. This is a concept I have read about before and was merely experimenting with applying it to my game. I am in the middle of a solid session and have a pretty solid image vs. the rest of the table.

[Schneids]

If it's a concept you wish to explore, doing it when there's a guy to your left tilting and likely to 3 bet you doesn't sound like the ideal time to try it...

BTW fwiw it's a pretty bogus concept in full table games.

[college_boy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is on major tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I pick up black 72 UTG and open.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's on tilt?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks so much for your constructive input.

To answer your question...He is the one on tilt--this becomes relevant postflop. I stated quite clearly in my post that he is tilting by raising too loosely and bluffing and betting too much. I also explained that I didn't want him to come along when I made this raise. I am not on tilt. This is a concept I have read about before and was merely experimenting with applying it to my game. I am in the middle of a solid session and have a pretty solid image vs. the rest of the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you read about the concept of raising utg 72o in a ten handed game? This is awful in the situation you described.

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's a concept you wish to explore, doing it when there's a guy to your left tilting and likely to 3 bet you doesn't sound like the ideal time to try it...


[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken.

From the times I've tried this more like 5 or 6 handed this kind of thing seems a lot more legit. Assuming you have a decent image and the table is relatively tight its a nice way to pick up some blinds or take it down with a single flop bet...at elast a couple people above seem to echo this.

[ QUOTE ]

BTW fwiw it's a pretty bogus concept in full table games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for going beyond the "your a moron" response and actually telling me that you dont agree with the concept and giving a reason why it was especially bad in this situation.

Had you been "quantum leap" style transported into the hand at the flop what line would you take postflop?

Thanks

[Schneids]

I would have played it the same way postflop as you, if the villain is indeed as tilty/maniacal as I am assuming he was.

Right, short handed your cards are not going to matter as much so doing this from time to time has less negatives (namely less likely someone wakes up behind you with 88+ and has you drawing super slim).

[climber]

Thanks a lot for the confirmation on the postflop line.