Standard laydown 200 NL

#1 10-11-2005, 08:06 AM

No reads on villain. Standard laydown?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO ($195.95)
Hero ($264.80)
SB ($244.60)
BB ($200)
UTG ($200)
UTG+1 ($328.60)
UTG+2 ($891.40)
MP1 ($195)
MP2 ($683.09)
MP3 ($267.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
7 folds, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($17) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $17, BB raises to $47, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $81

#2 10-11-2005, 08:26 AM

I don't like it, especially since he may think you are on a steal. I would call this and reevaulate on the turn, since I can see a flush draw or a worse ace here a lot.

Dumle

4_2_it · #3 10-11-2005, 10:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it, especially since he may think you are on a steal. I would call this and reevaulate on the turn, since I can see a flush draw or a worse ace here a lot.

Dumle

[/ QUOTE ]

With the preflop call and the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] out I wouldn't be concerned about a flush draw. Villain is either trying to steal or trying to proect his 2-pair or set of queens. If villain is a decent player, I fold and wait for a better spot.

If I am continuing in the hand I am torn between a call and re-raise. By calling your stack is basically committed so if your read is villain is drawing or stealing then push.

Note that I have to have a very solid read on villain to push with TPTK. I think fold is not a bad play against most decent NL $200 players.

#4 10-11-2005, 10:39 AM

You don't think villains calling standards are lower than usual, given that Hero raised first in on the button? I think a hand such as T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] must be considered.

Also, since you aren't really afraid of the flush draw, why push here? It's better to call and let him continue his bluff if he's on a steal, no?

Dumle

4_2_it · #5 10-11-2005, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Also, since you aren't really afraid of the flush draw, why push here? It's better to call and let him continue his bluff if he's on a steal, no?

Dumle

[/ QUOTE ]

If I am staying in this hand then my remaining stack is less then the turn pot and I am committed to calling anything. Better to put villain to the test. You might get a better hand (AQ) to fold if you represent AA or QQ.

Again, I believe a fold is the correct play, but if your read on villain says to continue, your stack is going in on the turn anyway. Villain knows you aren't on a draw so a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] won't scare him either.

If villain is playing 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] this aggressively here, there will be plenty of better spots to trap him for his stack.

KowCiller · #6 10-11-2005, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Better to put villain to the test. You might get a better hand (AQ) to fold if you represent AA or QQ

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone in the $200 game is folding AQ in this spot.

This is a highly player dependent situation. Without any reads at all I would lean towards a muck, but some (non-trivial) percentage of the time I'm going to call to see if villain wusses out and slows down so I can get to a cheaper showdown.

KoW

vanHelsing · #7 10-11-2005, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I am staying in this hand then my remaining stack is less then the turn pot and I am committed to calling anything.

[/ QUOTE ] I have ~turn pot 110, remaining eff. stack 145. But I agree it's decision time. I'd prefer to CR turn all-in if I play. Why stop a bluffer now, while we are somehow committed anyway? If we push now and get called, we are likely toast.

[ QUOTE ]
You might get a better hand (AQ) to fold if you represent AA or QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't play full ring, but I can say for sure that at 6 max no one will fold AQ.

Big_Jim · #8 10-11-2005, 05:34 PM

At these stakes, AQ folds 0% of the time.

Neither does A8 or Q8 for that matter.

troymclur · #9 10-11-2005, 10:41 AM

I seriously doubt he's going to have a set of queens. 88 and AQ are the only possibilities, but given the play as is i probably would have folded as well. If you're not willing to push, then fold is good. And its not a move you should feel too bad about.

actually, now that i think about it i don't mind a call/fold if strength is continued. you could be in a good position to steal against two-pair set if a scare card comes out. if a blank, and BB checks, you're good. Blank and BB moves, fold.

kurto · #10 10-11-2005, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it, especially since he may think you are on a steal. I would call this and reevaulate on the turn, since I can see a flush draw or a worse ace here a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think most players won't give him credit for an ace? I'm willing to bet most players won't checkraise him here unless they have him beat or, at worst, tied. (if the op was a maniac or seen as overly aggressive and showed down some weak hands, then this needs to be evaluated. But in general, I think a checkraise indicates better then TPTK)