Either way on the turn with AQ

[Greg (FossilMan)]

So, I go to Foxwoods today. No PLH game. No mixed game (e.g., HOSE). Back to basics, 20-40 holdem.

Interesting hand. I'm the SB w/ AQ. 3 limpers, I just call preflop. BB checks. Flop is 6d 9d Qh. I check, BB checks, another check, second limper bets, next player calls, I decide to see the next card, and just call, BB calls, last player folds. 4 players to the turn, 9 small bets in the pot.

Turn is 2h. I check, intending to check-raise, as I know the flop bettor, and am pretty sure he's going to bet again. I want to attempt to knock out a draw between us, or at least charge more. My plan is foiled by the BB betting out instead, flop bettor folds, last limper calls.

This is where the hand gets interesting. Here's what I know about the raiser/BB. He has a real hand here. Easily could be a set, but definitely not top set. He'd have raised preflop with QQ. It could be two pair, or a pair of 9s with an overcard kicker that also just became a heart flush draw (e.g., Kh9h). If you raise here, he will reraise with a set almost 100%. He will reraise with two pair occasionally, but much less than half the time he has that hand. He will only call with anything less.

Also, the other two players are almost certainly on draws, though it's hard to be sure which, among the two flush draws and the straight draws.

So, what is your play here on the turn?

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]

Flop is 6d 9d Qh. I check, BB checks, another check, second limper bets, next player calls, I decide to see the next card, and just call, BB calls, last player folds. 4 players to the turn, 9 small bets in the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

interesting slowplay. what is your reasoning here? I would be inclined to bet the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
My plan is foiled by the BB betting out instead, flop bettor folds, last limper calls.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is an odd bet, as it totally breaks the rhythm of the hand. If he was slowpaying the flop with a set or 2 pair, he would checkraise here, not bet out. for him to bet he has to think 2 things, 1 that he has the best hand, and 2 that there is a good chance the flop bettor will check it through.

I probably drop into checkcall mode and expect to get shown a big blindish looking 2 pair. I like a call on the turn because if you raise and get 3 bet you are barely priced into drawing to your 5 outer, and since your outs are probably very unclean I think you have to fold it.

--turnipmonster

[CrackerZack]

I'd really C/R this flop. On the turn, I'd call and probably bet a non-heart river and fold to a raise.

[andyfox]

If he will indeed 3-bet close to 100% of the time when you're drawing dead, and just call when you're either ahead or drawing live, I'd raise and charge the draw more, as per the original plan. [I think there's only one player left now in addition to you and the big blind.] Even not knowing exactly the nature of the drawing hand, there are still a lot of cards that can come on the river that wouldn't be bad for you.

My experience has been that not too many good things happen when I have A-Q, don't raise pre-flop and then check twice.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

The results are rather unsatisfactory. I check-raised, BB 3-bet, got calls from both limpers, and I folded. River was a blank, BB bet, both limpers folded, no cards shown.

I felt that if he 3-bet me, I was 90% certain to be drawing dead, so I could fold with no concern. However, I also knew that I probably could've seen his hand at the river for the same price, but then I wouldn't have been charging the draws the max those times I was ahead.

Folding was also not unreasonable, given that even when I was ahead, the river was going to beat me probably well over half the time.

Thanks, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[nykenny]

Greg,

check raise the flop, it was a golden opportunity. I'd normally bet the flop and 3 bet if raised, unless there was a LP raise before the flop, then I try check raise.

There were just too many people to play slow (not Slow Play).

By the way, I enjoy all your PLH, NLH posts. I believe you are much stronger in those game, far stronger.

Kenny