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#71
10-12-2005, 05:55 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
[ QUOTE ]
You think he calls a smaller bet with less??? [/ QUOTE ] No. I (and from reading responses, a lot of others, not that consensus necessarily makes us correct) think that a smaller continuation-bordering-on-probe-bet might induce a bluff (or semi-bluff) check-raise here. I'm not looking to get him to call a bet here, I'm looking to get as much of his money in the middle as possible right now. However, I will say one line I don't think i've seen mentioned yet would be the "emulate a donk" and dramatically overbet the flop (i.e. push it) aka the Lorinda move as its known in the STT forum. I certainly don't think its the best line here at this level (and especially if people know that I'm gigabet here), but thats becoming a nice piece of my toolchest in STT scenarios just like this (where the push is seen as a donk overbet bluff and gets called by a very wide range of hands). 
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#72
10-12-2005, 06:01 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
Why not just push?
If we are going to call a raise anyway? If villian is a party poker donkey and will call when beat then we get all the chips in the middle now. If he has us beat so be it. If he is on a draw, then we have the best chance to take the pot down now and be done with it. Of course, since there are two more streets to go this can't be the right answer....
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#73
10-12-2005, 06:05 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
I bet around T400. I can't put villain on any hand at this point. I doubt a set b/c he failed to reraise. QT is a nightmare, but possible. However, so are about 25 other hands including AJ and KJ, in which case I'm winning a big pot here.
If reraised I call and await the next card. I go broke here if I'm beat and no scary card hits the turn.
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#75
10-12-2005, 06:11 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
I make my standard continuation bet here, its a rainbow flop so I half-pot it most likely. I dont think there is a need to make it more than half the pot here, either. Since we don't have a read on the table, have to assume they don't have a read on us, so we can't go by the "thats what I've been doing in previous rounds". Explain to me the merit of betting 2/3 over 1/2 here on this rainbow flop. We crush villain's range, and want to induce action, if he is behind we aren't giving proper odds either way, and if he is behind he may stick around for the cheaper price, or be more likely to play back at us if he likes challenging continuation bets and/or takes our 1/2 pot bet as weak for some reason, which happens to me a lot more often than it does against my 2/3 bets.
I don't like betting more than 1/2 in this spot with no read on table and not going off of previous rounds, and also, as stated, checking here is very bad as we do have villain's range destroyed at the moment and likely have the best hand right now, but 11 cards can come on the turn that can be scary to us and the villain, and we can either be missing on chips we would have gotten out of a dominated villain on the flop, or potentially letting him catch one of his outs for free. I bet 1/2 pot, if raised here, I push. If called, I see the turn and his action, and go from there. Oh and, folding to a c/r is incredibly weak, and the reasons for that were already explained.
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#76
10-12-2005, 06:13 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
[ QUOTE ]
Why not just push? If we are going to call a raise anyway? If villian is a party poker donkey and will call when beat then we get all the chips in the middle now. If he has us beat so be it. If he is on a draw, then we have the best chance to take the pot down now and be done with it. Of course, since there are two more streets to go this can't be the right answer.... [/ QUOTE ] ell just because Gigabet didnt do it in the real hand doesnt mean it isnt the right answer ... but just because we're going to call his raise, why would we push? that would just make him fold more often, and we want his money in the pot on this hand. -- And for the people that are talking about folding, there is absolutely no way i'm folding this hand. (Well, on this street, but probably the whole hand)
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#77
10-12-2005, 06:52 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You think he calls a smaller bet with less??? [/ QUOTE ] No. I (and from reading responses, a lot of others, not that consensus necessarily makes us correct) think that a smaller continuation-bordering-on-probe-bet might induce a bluff (or semi-bluff) check-raise here. I'm not looking to get him to call a bet here, I'm looking to get as much of his money in the middle as possible right now. However, I will say one line I don't think i've seen mentioned yet would be the "emulate a donk" and dramatically overbet the flop (i.e. push it) aka the Lorinda move as its known in the STT forum. I certainly don't think its the best line here at this level (and especially if people know that I'm gigabet here), but thats becoming a nice piece of my toolchest in STT scenarios just like this (where the push is seen as a donk overbet bluff and gets called by a very wide range of hands). [/ QUOTE ] I think Villain expects a continuation/probe bet here almost 100% of the time. If he is going to call a c-bet he will at least call a bigger bet. I still think the bigger bet is more likely to confuse villain and be perceived as possible weakness. A weak bet here is the obvious play with most of the hands he puts you on. I think that little bit of pressure from the larger bet is more likely to get a bluff/semi-bluff re-raise than the expected c-bet. I think it's really unlikely that villain folds a hand to a pot size bet that he calls a 1/2 pot bet with. If he is going to check-fold the turn I want those chips now.
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#78
10-12-2005, 06:55 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
I bet 400 at it.
I'm not giving him a free shot at a straight or set if he has an underpair, both of which he is done with this hand. If i bet, he may think I don't have as good a hand as I have. He could be trying to check raise with AQ or AT. If he raises, I am pushing allin, if he has JJ, so be it. I am definitely going all the way with this hand. A T or Q would be a little scary, but I am pot committed and can't be certain that gives him the nuts.
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#80
10-12-2005, 07:18 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop
[ QUOTE ]
The pot size is wrong. If you raise 275, everyone folds including the 50chip sb and the bb calls, you have a 275+50+275=600 chip pot, not 650. [/ QUOTE ] You are correct and it's been edited to reflect 600. I don't think it will make a huge difference in people's responses. Thanks for pointing it out.
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