another river bet/fold (WA/WB)

[Redd]

I check-call the river, but I think it's close between c/c and c/f. I think checking is better either way since some better hands might get scared, let us off the hook, and give us a free showdown.
My problem with c/fing is that it's certainly possible (I'd even say likely) that an unknown could be betting a worse pair on this board on the flop and turn. So how often does he keep going with a pair once we check on the river? I think it's close, but I'd probably pay off against an unknown.

[winky51]

Gotta agree with this one. There are NO draws on the flop. Q55 rainbow. This guy called 2 cold then a raised the PF 3 better on the flop. He doesnt have 66 boyz, he had the Q or A5.

[winky51]

Now why would you not fold the flop? What else does this guy have? Your done.

Think if it this way. Lets say he had 88. PF 3 better bets, 88 raises the flop (maybe he has AK?), PF 3 better calls.... turn is a dud, PF 3 better checks, 88 bets...

How many of you WOULDNT bet 88 here that way?

Then again who would just cold call 2 with 77-TT here? I don't think anyone of us would, I wouldnt. So you can make this assumption of Mr. Unknown. If he is a TAG he is probably reraising with 77-TT, AQ preflop not cold calling. Since he cold called we are looking at a more passive player, thus he called with AQ or A5 fearing AA, AK, KK. He raised the flop like a good average player. "wow Mr. 3 better paused then just called I got him". Why wouldnt he bet again. If he had 77-88 and "just cold called" he would tend to call down the bets since it is quite possible in his scared little mind the 3 better had AA or KK.

I think we are more likely WB than WA. Our bet on the river is going to get called by a Q and raised by a 5. In short, I c/f this river.

[TomBrooks]

Why didn't you fold to the flop raise? What do you think he would raise with there besides a Q, KK or AA?

[jt1]

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Why didn't you fold to the flop raise? What do you think he would raise with there besides a Q, KK or AA?

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I played this hand last night, and though I'm specifically aware that Villian was new to the game, I honestly don't remember if I noticed that the board was paired. I do know that I was surprised that it was paired after I posted it this morning.

But, at any rate, I see players raise middle pp's and AK all the time after being 3 bet pre-flop.

Though that doesn't take into consideration his 2 cold calls preflop play. Usually players who will raise middle pp and/or AK on the flop raised preflop and then called a 3-bet.

I think, though, that the pot is big enough to try and protect one way or another. It's 7bb by the time it gets back to me on the flop. I'm getting 3-1 to see a SD, and even on this board, I don't think those are bad odds.

After that Ace rivers, though, I basically praying he had a middle pp. I can see check folding but I'm not sure I could do that getting 11-1.

[TomBrooks]

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Why didn't you fold to the flop raise? What do you think he would raise with there besides a Q, KK or AA?

[/ QUOTE ] I played this hand last night, and though I'm specifically aware that Villian was new to the game, I honestly don't remember if I noticed that the board was paired. I do know that I was surprised that it was paired after I posted it this morning.
But, at any rate, I see players raise middle pp's and AK all the time after being 3 bet pre-flop.
Though that doesn't take into consideration his 2 cold calls preflop play. Usually players who will raise middle pp and/or AK on the flop raised preflop and then called a 3-bet.
I think, though, that the pot is big enough to try and protect one way or another. It's 7bb by the time it gets back to me on the flop. I'm getting 3-1 to see a SD, and even on this board, I don't think those are bad odds.
After that Ace rivers, though, I basically praying he had a middle pp. I can see check folding but I'm not sure I could do that getting 11-1.

[/ QUOTE ]
And how are you doing? Do you have a positive BB/100? I only play 1/2 mostly. Maybe the 3/6 game is different.

[jt1]

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And how are you doing? Do you have a positive BB/100? I only play 1/2 mostly. Maybe the 3/6 game is different.

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Why do you ask? I'm up .5 bb after 30,000 hands. I have a feeling I'm a 1bb/100 player right now. 3/6 is tougher than 1/2, but I think anyone with basic poker skills including tilt management can beat it.

[TomBrooks]

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And how are you doing?

[/ QUOTE ] Why do you ask? I'm up .5 bb after 30,000 hands. I have a feeling I'm a 1bb/100 player right now. 3/6 is tougher than 1/2, but I think anyone with basic poker skills including tilt management can beat it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi jt,
I just asked because I thought you were overplaying your hand, but if you're having success it might indicate I'm wrong or that the 3/6 game is more aggressive than 1/2.

[Disconnected]

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I check-call the river, but I think it's close between c/c and c/f. I think checking is better either way since some better hands might get scared, let us off the hook, and give us a free showdown.
My problem with c/fing is that it's certainly possible (I'd even say likely) that an unknown could be betting a worse pair on this board on the flop and turn. So how often does he keep going with a pair once we check on the river? I think it's close, but I'd probably pay off against an unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

My initial reaction to this was to check/call the river, since I think in general in this thread, people may be putting villain on too narrow a hand range before the river. From villain's standpoint, hero made a standard continuation bet on a flop that isn't all that likely to have helped him in a decent sized pot. The original raiser folded, so a fair number of hands may take a shot on the flop, including middle pairs.

When smooth-called and checked to on the turn, villain pretty much has to bet whatever he was raising on the flop, and even with a middle pair, he's got to feel he's likely got the best hand when he's not check-raised.

So, on the river, even with the ace, I would think that villain would continue to fire away even with a hand that we beat, desperate to take the pot, if nothing else. Back to hero's perspective, on the river, I'd want to show down my hand as cheaply as possible, so I would check/call. Check/fold is OK, but I would think that once you check, villain is going to pretty much bet anything. I still figure I'm going to lose this hand, but I think I'll lose less on average by check/calling than by check/folding.

As for folding to a raise, I do think that's the right play once you bet. Bet/folding is OK, but I don't think you can fold a better hand with that donk, but you may fold some hands that would bet in position.