tough flop 15/30

PokerHorse · #1 12-07-2004, 02:19 AM

here is a little ditty that came up yesterday.

I was 2 off the button and open raised with AQs. player too my left(very loose and had been getting lucky) calls.
the small blind (normal), re-raises. i decide to cap it to try and get the nut to fold. Mistake #1, he calls.

Flop / A J 10 diamonds. Not my suit. pot is big 13 bets.

The re-raiser bets. obviously a tough flop against a re-raiser firing out on the flop. I'm leaning towards folding, but the pot is big, i have aces with gut shot straight,...
but the 3 flush! How would you proceed ??

Manzanita · #2 12-07-2004, 02:37 AM

PokerHorse,

I like raising here. Your hand is too good to fold. And given the size of the pot you can't let the player to your left get a cheap draw. However I would be worried that the SB may have AK, perhaps with the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], so I would play the rest of the hand very carefully.

-- Manzanita

anatta · #3 12-07-2004, 02:49 AM

I want to see a showdown cheaply. Sure I could invest some bets here on the flop "to see where I stand", but what if he has red kings and keeps charging? You could spike a non-diamond king. I just call and hope for the best. Other might say "I raise the turn to force out the other player in a big pot and if I get three-bet then I can fold the river..." but thats not me, I just call!

fearme · #4 12-07-2004, 05:18 AM

i think he would checkraise his strongest hands, i doubt he has flush, hope he has qq, kk, however there are a lot of hands that have u beat, maybe u get lucky and spike that k

tolbiny · #5 12-07-2004, 06:18 AM

I call the flop here and then pop the turn a very high percentage of the time. It will scare the bejeeses out of the Sb if he is holding anything he is capable of folding- which might include the Q-diamonds (not to likely) or a plain AK, or an AQ with no diamond. Any of which would be a coup. I would ignore the nut untill he raises himself or calls two cold on the turn.

Steve Giufre · #6 12-07-2004, 06:32 AM

I hate having the sucker behind me but you cant fold for one bet. The pot is big and you are ahead of enough of the SB's likely combinations to continue. I think calling is best, and then see what develops on the turn. I dont like rasing the flop because all you are gonna do is make the pot even bigger, and you wont probably really know when he has the goods and when he decides to get aggresive with something like K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. If you raise the flop for information, and he does push say QQ or KK with a diamond you might end up making a bad laydown in a big pot. If you do call and it turns into a raising war on the flop I think you can throw your hand away. IMO raising a blank on turn provided the pot is still three handed is an option, because if you are three bet you can probably be pretty sure its AA, JJ, 1010, AK and you can fold knowing you are drawing to three or so outs. At least this way you can charge the fish the max or perhaps get him to lay down a small or medium diamond. Tricky hand, I could be convinced there are better ways to proceed, but I like trying to get to the river as quickly and cheaply as possible.

BTW, I think this would be a whole different story in a live game. Then I could see maybe making a tough laydown somewhere in the hand with a good read, but not in a short 15-30 Party game in a big pot.

vmacosta · #7 12-07-2004, 06:36 AM

Call the flop bet and make your decision based on what happens on the turn (if its 3-bets to you on the flop after you just called you're probably giving it up right there). If the turn is a blank consider popping it. One thing I love to try in a B&M casino is to make an ugly face and grumble at the flop (as though I'm acting like I hate the flop but actually love it) as I call. This occasionally scares the SB into checking the turn (if he doesn't have a set or top pair big diamond)...even if he continues firing wih a marginal hand (like AK no diamond), my turn raise often gains a lot more respect and I can often get a free showdown if neither of us improve to a monster hand.

Steve Giufre · #8 12-07-2004, 06:50 AM

Post deleted by Steve Giufre

vmacosta · #9 12-07-2004, 07:01 AM

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One thing I love to try in a B&M casino is to make an ugly face and grumble at the flop (as though I'm acting like I hate the flop but actually love it) as I call. This occasionally scares the SB into checking the turn (if he doesn't have a set or top pair big diamond)...even if he continues firing wih a marginal hand (like AK no diamond), my turn raise often gains a lot more respect and I can often get a free showdown if neither of us improve to a monster hand.

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Thats an excellent point. He should seriously consider typing in, "currenty making face and grumbling" after he calls the flop. Perhaps that would scare the SB into giving us a free turn.

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Sorry, new to this forum and I didn't realize the post alluded to whether this was online or B&M.

Steve Giufre · #10 12-07-2004, 07:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One thing I love to try in a B&M casino is to make an ugly face and grumble at the flop (as though I'm acting like I hate the flop but actually love it) as I call. This occasionally scares the SB into checking the turn (if he doesn't have a set or top pair big diamond)...even if he continues firing wih a marginal hand (like AK no diamond), my turn raise often gains a lot more respect and I can often get a free showdown if neither of us improve to a monster hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats an excellent point. He should seriously consider typing in, "currenty making face and grumbling" after he calls the flop. Perhaps that would scare the SB into giving us a free turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, new to this forum and I didn't realize the post alluded to whether this was online or B&M.

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I was just kidding around, it may have been a live for all I know. BTW I agree with your thoughts about the hand.