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#31
11-07-2005, 06:51 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to live in a country that doesn't believe in god. Personally I'm 95% or so there is no god, but frankly I like the idea that the majority of people think there is a god. I mean honestly if the majority didn't think there was some sort of omnipotent being that could hold them accountable I think the social contract would collapse. Crime, murder and the like would be much much more widespread don't you think? If tomorrow everyone woke up and knew 100% there wasn't a god, I think you'd see a lot more underling’s murder bosses, random street arguments break out into full scale murders. I think that a belief system is what keeps a lot of things ticking, I can't imagine everyone stays civil just because of "police" consequences. [/ QUOTE ] Personally, I don't think that most people who claim to believe in God actually alter their day-to-day behavior because of their belief. Admittedly, there's no way to proove that this is this case. 
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#32
11-07-2005, 07:08 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
[ QUOTE ]
I mean honestly if the majority didn't think there was some sort of omnipotent being that could hold them accountable I think the social contract would collapse. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps you need to have a look over the data in the post "Correlations of Societal Health with Religiosity & Secularism " and that'll set your mind at ease. luckyme
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#33
11-07-2005, 07:47 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
what are so great about the Dems? (assuming they are in power). Welfare programs dont work. Yeah some of their other stances on social issues are better than repubs. but big government does not help the people it is supposed to help.
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#34
11-07-2005, 08:15 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
You might think yours is a good example - and as a hypothetical it could very well be a good example - but it doesn’t work that way. Our Church does not operate that way.
So, you need to either find another example or accept the fact that your fears are unfounded. Let’s take an extreme example and assume for the sake of discussion (or to ease fears) that the Pope did make such a pronouncement. Let say a war started in Zoolooland. The Pope says this war is unjust and any Catholic who fights in it or supports it in anyway will be excommunicated. Well, I would have to guess that the Pope probably is right that the war is unjust. Usually these guys (Popes) aren’t idiots. So the reasoning the Pope came to conclude the war is unjust I am sure would be based on sound logic. Thus, the politician should have already realized this on his own anyway. He would (should) be voting against the war to begin with and not because the Pope said it. The Pope does not get involved in these things. I can’t remember exactly what the last Pope said about Iraq, but he wasn’t real pleased with the war, per se. Because he isn’t pleased with any war. If he were to make a direct statement about say a brutal dictator - it would simply be that - a statement. It would not be any formal doctrine that us Catholics would be obligated to follow simply by decree.
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#35
11-07-2005, 08:18 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
[ QUOTE ]
what are so great about the Dems? (assuming they are in power). Welfare programs dont work. Yeah some of their other stances on social issues are better than repubs. but big government does not help the people it is supposed to help. [/ QUOTE ] Don't pretend the Republicans are the party of small government. It may have been true in the past, but it certainly is not true currently.
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#36
11-07-2005, 08:47 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
I dont come to this forum often anymore, but your wrong here. Comments such as the ones you have received come from what you say. if there wasn't something unsound in your reasoning, then no one would have a problem with what u say. I remember when i first came here i was just like u. Then sexdrugsmoney taught me that you have to consider the beleifs and oppions of others before you say something. For example: I'm a Christian and i beleive that when you remove the very basis our country is founded on, then our nation would fall apart. but heres where your argument comes in. A nation divided against itself cannot stand. With a decreasing number of Christians and moral people all together combined with an increase in crime and sex and immorality our nation could fall apart. Government is all ready divided and our races are divided and families are divided. Heck, even churches are divided. at somepoint we have to change something.
You see, there is the proper place for each argument. a proper place for yours and a proper place for mine. What you have to do is evaluate and explain both arguments and the reasoning behind them and then explain why you beleive yours is better.
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#37
11-07-2005, 09:04 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
[ QUOTE ]
I dont come to this forum often anymore, but your wrong here. Comments such as the ones you have received come from what you say. if there wasn't something unsound in your reasoning, then no one would have a problem with what u say. I remember when i first came here i was just like u. Then sexdrugsmoney taught me that you have to consider the beleifs and oppions of others before you say something. For example: I'm a Christian and i beleive that when you remove the very basis our country is founded on, then our nation would fall apart. but heres where your argument comes in. A nation divided against itself cannot stand. With a decreasing number of Christians and moral people all together combined with an increase in crime and sex and immorality our nation could fall apart. Government is all ready divided and our races are divided and families are divided. Heck, even churches are divided. at somepoint we have to change something. You see, there is the proper place for each argument. a proper place for yours and a proper place for mine. What you have to do is evaluate and explain both arguments and the reasoning behind them and then explain why you beleive yours is better. [/ QUOTE ] Can you elaborate on the section in bold?
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#38
11-07-2005, 09:42 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
RJT,
We don't have to be so hypothetical. I remember very clearly that following the introduction of the oral contracptive (the pill), there were many priests that were advocating its use by catholics. In fact we had to wait quite a number of years before the pope made his, the church, God, politician, position clear on this matter in an encyclical (can't remember which one). Therefore from that point on it became a sin, which it wasn't before? Wake up dude, church and politics should be kept well separate. The above surely is a moral issue and the entire population should not be denied access to contraceptives (I know they have, but it shows that the scenario I suggested in my previous post as not as far fetched as you may think) because the pope has it in his head that it is wrong. Personally, I reckon the pope position in this case IS immoral and bad news for a humanity plagued with an overpopulation problem. My opinion is "be wary of voting for a politician that is catholic, for you are really voting for the pope", unless he is a bad catholic that is. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#39
11-07-2005, 10:07 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
[ QUOTE ]
For example: I'm a Christian and i beleive that when you remove the very basis our country is founded on, then our nation would fall apart. [/ QUOTE ] Ok lets say that there is no God, atleast to Americans. Now remember if there is no God there is no hell or satan. what will happpen. Well, there is no longer any reason for morals. Heck, nothing would happen when we die why dont we enjoy life. OUr founding fathers always kept God in mind when forming our government. Sure not all of them were Christians but most were, or they were at least deists. IMO This government helped form the greatest nation in the world. What happens when you take out the reason for our system of government. Everything starts to fall appart
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#40
11-07-2005, 10:15 PM
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Re: Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] For example: I'm a Christian and i beleive that when you remove the very basis our country is founded on, then our nation would fall apart. [/ QUOTE ] Ok lets say that there is no God, atleast to Americans. Now remember if there is no God there is no hell or satan. what will happpen. Well, there is no longer any reason for morals. Heck, nothing would happen when we die why dont we enjoy life. OUr founding fathers always kept God in mind when forming our government. Sure not all of them were Christians but most were, or they were at least deists. IMO This government helped form the greatest nation in the world. What happens when you take out the reason for our system of government. Everything starts to fall appart [/ QUOTE ] How do you explain the much higher crime rate as well as the much higher percentage of religious people in the US compared to other advanced countries? If what you believe is true, countries who are largely secular, such as those in Europe or in Japan, should be awash in crime. Instead it is the religious US that is crime ridden.
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