Two poorly played 99 hands, please help me out

toddw8 · #1 06-15-2004, 05:22 PM

Hand 1:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls $0.09 (All-In), MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.20 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB folds, Hero folds.

River: (9.10 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: 9.10 BB

Yuck, this looks pretty terrible now, but at the time the Button 3-bet really scared me for some reason. Yell at me for this one.

Hand 2:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Is the raise okay here?

Turn: (12.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

When should I have laid this down? I'm pretty sure calling that last bet on the flop getting 24:1 is alright, but what about the call on the turn?

cold_cash · #2 06-15-2004, 05:32 PM

In hand 2, if you're ahead on the turn you're still ahead on the river, so it doesn't make any sense to call the turn bet then fold the river.

Having said that, I think I would fold on the turn to avoid the uncomfy river situation. You don't have the odds to draw to a two-outer, and you're most likely behind.

dfscott · #3 06-15-2004, 05:55 PM

I'm bad at these too (see my "88 misses the flop" post), but I'll offer my take...

Hand 1:

Pre-Flop: I might re-raise if UTG+1 didn't go all-in and I thought I could knock anyone out, but I think calling the 3-bet is best here.

Post-Flop: Yeah, it's easy to run scared with middle pairs after being 3-bet, but I'd call this down all the way for 1 bet. Button might be on AK for all you know.

Hand 2:

Pre-flop: I think raising is right here, but with this many callers, you'll probably need to hit your set to win.

Post-flop: You missed your set, but I think the raise is ok to see where you are. The 3-bet from the SB says you're behind. My weak/tight self would check/fold the turn unless I caught a nine.

flexus · #4 06-15-2004, 06:27 PM

Hey

I bet the flop in hand 1. Sure, your opponent might have AA or KK. But he might also have Ak or just two random cards [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. If he raises you on the flop and your opponent folds (which is actually a good thing) Í think you can call down the typical opponent.

I like the flop raise in hand 2. I like it because the flop is very big. Had it been smaller, I would have folded instantly (maybe I am a weakie though). Call the 3-bet and fold the turn. You can be almost certain you are beat by either player here and you dont have the odds to chase.

Greg J · #5 06-15-2004, 06:56 PM

Hand 2:
[ QUOTE ]
When should I have laid this down?

[/ QUOTE ]

I lay it down on the flop, but that's me. Checking and calling is not a good strategy in these kinds of hands. You basically have 4 outs with a paired board, and only two of them are clean. Don't get sucked into these hands. You are paying off the other players. You have about a 1 in 8 chance of making your set on the flop. When you don't it's time to start thinking about getting out of the hand, or staying in cheaply when an overcard hits.

Nice preflop raise.

Hand one: I raise this flop. Most likely he will just call. Then see if he checks to you on the turn. if he does try to take him down.

Don't let 3 bets scare you. These brain surgeons at 5c/10c will 3 bet with KXo.

flexus · #6 06-15-2004, 07:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand one: I raise this flop. Most likely he will just call. Then see if he checks to you on the turn. if he does try to take him down.

[/ QUOTE ]

In what game does the button check to the CO? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think you need to review the HH.

Greg J · #7 06-15-2004, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hand one: I raise this flop. Most likely he will just call. Then see if he checks to you on the turn. if he does try to take him down.

[/ QUOTE ]

In what game does the button check to the CO? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think you need to review the HH.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops you're right. my bad.

jrobb83 · #8 06-15-2004, 08:44 PM

hand 1:

I like check-raising this flop. He'll bet with overcards most of the time, but will only three-bet with a hand that beats you. You can then confidently lead the turn if not re-raised and check-fold the turn after being three-bet.

hand 2:

I think this is an easy fold on the turn. If you aren't behind in this hand, you will be enough times to make folding correct. You don't have the odds to hit your set, and if you call because you think you are ahead, you have to call the river when a blank hits.

L0QTiS · #9 06-15-2004, 10:04 PM

Hand 1:

I don't like the preflop raise with 99 in most loose games, except perhaps the button, prefering instead to limp and see what happens. If raised, call - you still have good position.

On the flop, I would tend to bet here for several reasons (a) there's a good chance you have the best hand, (b) information - if the button just calls, it's now much more likely you are ahead (c) chance to isolate against the button - ie. you bet, button raise - BB may drop giving you Heads up (minus the all-in) - 99 vs the button on this flop seems much better than mulit-way.

Turn: Nothing up to this point indicates you're beat. Check/call here or bet out.

River: Bad card, but I think you have to pay off unless there's more folks still in and suddenly come alive.

Hand 2:

Raise is ok preflop

Flop: I think you're beat after the 3-bet but it depends on how manical this table was. Some folks just raise for action given this is a small microgame so you kind of have to play it by ear. Play the player but be mindfull of those who cold-call. SB's 3-bet suggests Q's 4's or maybe flush draw, hard to say at this limit.

Turn and River - Either stay until the river or fold to a bet on the turn. My guess, you're beat by flush or Q's or better. Winning holding 9944Q with this boards seems unlikely

flexus · #10 06-16-2004, 01:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like check-raising this flop. He'll bet with overcards most of the time, but will only three-bet with a hand that beats you. You can then confidently lead the turn if not re-raised and check-fold the turn after being three-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

note that his opponent 3-betted preflop. Against many opponents, such preflop aggression is limited to QQ,KK, AA and AK. If the opponent is the type that is more likely to hold a higher pair than overcards then I really don't see any point in CRing the flop. Of course, if the button is maniacal, I am with you, but there was no read supplied in this post, which is why I would prefer betting and see what happens. That way you have to pay one (possibly two) sb less for more or less the same information. There is also a good chance he will continue to bluff with missed overcards if you simply call his raise and call him down.

Don't be afraid to comment and critisize on my thoughts.

best regards
flexus