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  #1  
Old 11-18-2005, 10:10 PM
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Default KTo hitting many draws

Im pretty confused by this whole hand. What should my approach have been from the flop?

Edit: No reads on villian but his stats were 26.6/9/1

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

On the flop i had a decent flush draw, a straight draw and a an overcard. I did bet mostly to win the pot at once but if didnt i figured i had about 15 outs. When he raised i figured he probably had a Q or J.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls.

Here i wasnt sure what was the best options. I thought that if he had a Q or J he would fold against a bet but also that he could very well check it through if i didnt bet . I did go for the CR and hoped for the best.

River: (7.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero ??

Here i was pretty much lost so i just did a panic bet. After his raise i almost knew for certain that i was beat but it was a big pot..

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2005, 10:19 PM
McGahee McGahee is offline
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Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

What were you thinking?
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2005, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

No opinions?
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2005, 09:43 AM
lautzutao lautzutao is offline
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Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

You really shouldn't have raised the turn with only the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], for all you know villian was raising with the A or K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and looking for a free turn card. Just call down from there.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2005, 09:45 AM
zPro zPro is offline
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Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

Flop: Good

Turn: The check raise is really bad. What does this accomplish? (looks like a move to get your opponent to fold)
Bet out on the turn.
You will have a better idea of your opponents' strength.
Makes the river a lot easier too.
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2005, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

[ QUOTE ]
You really shouldn't have raised the turn with only the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], for all you know villian was raising with the A or K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and looking for a free turn card. Just call down from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

His stats pretty much tells me he never heard of the free card concept. Add that to the fact that he knocks out the BB. Isnt it much more probable that he has a pair that he wants to protect?

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: Good
Turn: The check raise is really bad. What does this accomplish? (looks like a move to get your opponent to fold)
Bet out on the turn.
You will have a better idea of your opponents' strength.
Makes the river a lot easier too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah the turn CR is bad. But what is the option? Betting out and folding to a raise? And if he calls what happens on the river? B/F?
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2005, 10:59 AM
stuartharris stuartharris is offline
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Posts: 27
Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

15 outs on the flop?

Let's see. I don't like your 10 nearly as much as you do. I'll give you 4.5 for the flush. For the straight, I'll count the A of hearts as 1/2, but completely discount the 9 of hearts--6.5 outs, but even then you're sometimes already beaten by a flush or will get beaten on a redraw on the river. If I generously give you 1.5 outs for the king, I get a total of 12.5 outs and think that's exaggerating.

Still, this is probably enough to value bet the flop, but you can't be happy when MP1 raises. When he bets on the turn, you're getting 4.75:1. Assuming we call the bet here and on the river, we're getting 5.75:2. Is your 10 good 26% of the time? Probably. Are you ahead most of the time? No. Call him down from the turn.
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2005, 11:35 AM
johnzzz johnzzz is offline
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Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

I would have bet the flop and then folded after his raise.

A raise with that board suggests he's got a made flush or at least the nut or second nut draw.

The turn then gives him the nut or second nut flush.

On the loose tables I play at it's often the third player you didn't think about who'll turn over the ace!
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2005, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: KTo hitting many draws

how come nobody posts the conclusion of these things? what did he have? a small suited holding?

that's very much more likely, than A/Kxs. after all, he only called a middle position limp. in the event that he had A/xs, i think he would have raised (without knowing this guy's ratings) and likely have raised with Kxs; he has a chancce to knock out the blinds with a raise. the fact that he didnt make that raise says he either has a made hand, or he's taking a shot at a draw. if that's right, Hero has at least a 50/50 chance of winning this hand on a four flush board, if not greater. so a C/C on the river was correct, as i see it, and a C/C on the turn may have been, without doing the math.

i'd say the play on the turn blew, and on the flop, too, because it isn't only how likely you have a good hand, but how likely it is he has the nut; like the other posters had said, most of your outs have a high likelihood of being non-outs, so they have to be counted differently.

who won?

what about the preflop, should hero have raised?
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