do we have free will? - Page 3

hmkpoker · #21 11-02-2005, 01:48 AM

I should point out that you're preaching to the choir...I'm agnostic/atheist and determinist [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

RJT · #22 11-02-2005, 02:49 AM

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Google says yes.

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LOL. Good one.

I wonder if one really fills in the form if it is free or not. I bet they say you have to pay something for processing. But, I am cynical sometimes.

hypermegachi · #23 11-02-2005, 11:26 AM

i'm surprised that there hasn't been any religious defence for having free will, especially for Catholics since free will in such an important part of their doctrine.

i'm not trying to single you guys out, but i'd like to hear the argument for us having free will, given that God can see the beginning and end of time, thus predestining everything that we do.

and to take it one step further, i'm sure Catholics also believe that God is omnipotent...but if that were true, again, how can we have free will if God at any moment can choose to change it?

hmkpoker · #24 11-02-2005, 11:53 AM

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Free will is NOT a scientific issue. It's a philosophical one because it's so far beyond what science can adequately address (for now).

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Well said. However, with the last century of development in the psychology/nueroscience field, I think it's fair to say that it's becoming increasingly scientific. The fact that science is becoming increasingly better at predicting behavior is very suggestive of a deterministic model.

purnell · #25 11-02-2005, 01:53 PM

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/

This was done to death a while back, so I'm just gonna watch.

hypermegachi · #26 11-02-2005, 02:41 PM

you wouldn't happen to have a 2+2 link, would you?

purnell · #27 11-02-2005, 03:33 PM

It was before the forum split. I get no matches.

#28 11-02-2005, 04:29 PM

There is no conflict between divine foreknowledge and freewill. God's knowing that you will freely choose to do A instead of B does not mean that you did not freely choose to do A.

J. Stew · #29 11-02-2005, 04:32 PM

Premise Two is wrong.

Time is a concept that humans made up.

imported_luckyme · #30 11-02-2005, 05:45 PM

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There is no conflict between divine foreknowledge and freewill.God's knowing that you will freely choose to do A instead of B does not mean that you did not freely choose to do A.

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Most of the conflict arises not from a voyeur god but from intercession. "Don't let him hurt my child" removes free will from the kidnapper if god acts on the request through the kidnapper. Or if he guides the surgeons hands during an operation, etc.