Jacked Up?

[Ed Miller]

Hands like this are why the games in Vegas are good.

That line deserves two posts.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this are why the games in Vegas are good.

That line deserves two posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. More specifically, it is why the Mirage games in particular are so much more profitable than they reasonably should be.

[serling]

I'm going all the way with this one, Babe.

Though if I'm respecting his 4bet on the flop, I'm check-folding the turn. Or I'm check-raising the turn and folding to a 3bet.

But unless I'm planning to leave the table shortly, I'm calling the whole way down, if not just to see what he calls a raise with and 4bets with.

serling

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this are why the games in Vegas are good.

[/ QUOTE ]

cute quote, but isn't the reason people playing too many hands and going too far with them?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this are why the games in Vegas are good.

[/ QUOTE ]

cute quote, but isn't the reason people playing too many hands and going too far with them?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why LA games are so profitable.

It's like the real life version of Sklansky's Perfectly Readable vs Perfectly Terrible question.

[bernie]

I think if i'm calling the turn here, i'm calling the river. Especially against an unknown. What's really changed from the turn to the river? Not much. His earlier jamming doesnt indicate that a Q would help him on the end.

Unless you think he has the Qc. Even then, i'd call it.

Or did he flash you a 9 when he put the last bet in?

b

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Ok, as expected most people here want to call the river. Wow, what a surprise.

I discussed this hand with some well respected players today and someone made a very insightful and important point about folding the river for "one more bet" here. .

What most people here realize is that someone calling a 4th bet on the flop and calling on the turn is pretty unlikely to fold the river. Any thinking opponent knows that if I am calling the turn, I am hard pressed to NOT throw in the 40 on the river. Remember that this guy doesn't know me at all. I would expect that he would expect me to call the river.

When my opponent bet the river without hesitation, having shown strength throughout the hand I was about 99% sure I was beat and about 100% sure the guy was not bluffing on some draw or underpair. Oh yes, of course, I could still pay him off, as many posters would. Of course, I don't want to make laydowns on the river that are mathematical errors when I think there is some chance I may have the best hand. Yes, I know that we must all make those calls even if we are only right "x" percent of the time.

Anyway, what I was thinking on the river was "OMG", this guy called me with A,9 !. [censored], I put in all those bets and he had me drawing to 2 outs.

It seemed bizarre that someone 2 UTG would call my raise with A,9 and equally bizarre that he would not 3 bet a big pair. When my opponent bet the river, I was pretty sure that he had A, 9 and he had indeed flopped trips.

It seemed unlikely that he would hold a mere A,Q or A,K, and put in 4 bets on the flop. Even with the nut club draw, 4 bets is unusual on the flop. Certainly, even a novice would not jam quads on the flop, so that hand was out.

I check folded my hand on the river and the guy then shows his cards to the person on his left. He must have been nervous or excited, because he then fumbles them onto the felt. To my amazement, I see a red 9 and a black 4.

Now that is really a hand to talk about.

LGPG,

Babe [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[Clarkmeister]

No, we want you to fold on the turn or call on the river.

Something you ignore in your analysis is that he may well not think he's bluffing. Despite your 3-bet on the flop, many players may think their medium pair is good there, and will value bet on the river. Of course it looks like they "aren't bluffing" on the river. Because in their mind, they aren't. Nevermind the fact that some crappy 10 high flush draw has no choice but to bluff the river regardless of what they think of your intentions to call.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Hi Clark,

Sure, this board looks pretty nonthreatening to a guy holding 88 and your point is well taken. Yet, I think it's unusual for a player to make it 4 on the flop with an underpair and then to bet the river when a face card comes after getting some resistance from an UTG raiser. Oh yes, I am a girl, though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] LOL.

Even if my worst fears on the turn were correct (as they were), I still had two outs and the pot is attractive enough for me to call the turn hoping for the miracle river....... Alas, it was not meant to be.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[TheLoser]

I think his hand alone shows you should called the river. If he is calling your raise with 9,4 is he not capable of going nutty with a mid PP or a flush draw? I do not get to play much live poker but I recently went away for a month and played 20-40 to 50-100 for a month depending on what game is running and your arguement that any thinking opponent would assume you are going to call the river would work if most of your opponents were thinking opponents.During my trip I saw very few players who put much thought into anything even at the 50-100 game