Is this call always right or always wrong?

stealyourface · #1 09-26-2005, 03:20 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ (6 max, 6 handed) converter

MP ($32.09)
CO ($44)
Button ($79.90)
SB ($217.75)
BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ ($47)
Hero ($49.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero calls $0.50, 3 folds, SB (poster) completes, BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ raises to $1.5, Hero calls $1.50, SB folds.

Flop: ($4.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain bets $4, Hero raises to $12, Villain calls $41 (All-In).

Ok so I know Villain has AA-QQ. Is it correct to make this call everytime knowing that i'm coinflipping?

This is probably an obvious question but these are the concepts I have a hard time understanding.

dtbog · #2 09-26-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Ok so I know Villain has AA-QQ. Is it correct to make this call everytime knowing that i'm coinflipping?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Pot odds.

If you truly know he has AA-QQ...

the pot has $4.50 when the flop comes out. He bets 4, you make it 12, he calls-and-raises-allin.

When you're making your decision, the pot looks like this:

$04.50 preflop
$24.00 worth of called bets on the flop
$29.00 more to call
------
$57.50

You're calling $29 into $57.50, so you're basically getting 2:1 on a coinflip. This is a classic example of pot odds, and you must call.

stealyourface · #3 09-26-2005, 03:28 PM

Ok cool, thanks.

I got a hypothetical though... what odds does the pot have to be giving me to make this call incorrect?

dtbog · #4 09-26-2005, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I got a hypothetical though... what odds does the pot have to be giving me to make this call incorrect?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's your hypothetical: there is no preflop action and your opponent turns his cards face-up. Thankfully, a magical nymph has dropped $x into the pot for you to fight for -- just for fun. Your opponent has AA, but you can't read the suits.

You have 76 suited. The flop comes with one of your suit, giving you an open-ended straight draw and top pair... and a backdoor flush draw that may or may not give him a redraw (if he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

The odds of you winning here is approximately 47%... and your justification to call hinges on the amount in the pot (x) and the size of the smaller of the two stacks.

Here's the equation:

(0.47)(2*stack + x) = stack

The left side is your equity once you put your money in the pot -- you are 'entitled' to 47% of this pot, and its size will be equal to the smaller of the stacks twice (one from you, one from your opponent), plus the "dead money" x.

For this to be a break-even proposition, this equity must be equal to the amount of the smaller of the two stacks before the money went in -- this means you made a break-even investment. Any more dead money means you made a profitable investment.

Do you follow?

stealyourface · #5 09-26-2005, 03:43 PM

I think I understand... so does that mean it is never incorrect to call in a 50/50 situation?

dtbog · #6 09-26-2005, 03:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I understand... so does that mean it is never incorrect to call in a 50/50 situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically... but realize a few things.

1) These hypotheticals only extend to situations where you KNOW your opponent's hole cards in a heads-up pot. This is pretty damn rare.

2) Coin flips are more of a tournament situation; this comes up much less often in NL cash games. You can take coin flips if you must, but you're not looking to get in coinflips all the time -- it's all about manipulating the odds to be in your favor, so your money should generally be going in when you are a favorite.

3) There are very few concrete absolutes in NL Hold'em -- possibly none. Try not to think this way.

stealyourface · #7 09-26-2005, 04:00 PM

All good points but #3 I think is particularly important.

Sometimes I get the impression from some posters on 2+2 that there is a right way to play or a "correct" line for a specific hand. In the end I believe this thinking makes you far more predictable and readable which in poker (esp. live) can have extremely detrimental effects on one's game.

Mr. Curious · #8 09-26-2005, 04:04 PM

[quoteThe odds of you winning here is approximately 47%...

[/ QUOTE ]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1242818
pokenum -h 7h 6h - as ah -- 5h 4d 6s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 6s 4d 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7h 6h 463 46.77 503 50.81 24 2.42 0.480
As Ah 503 50.81 463 46.77 24 2.42 0.520

An easy way to understand where the 47% comes from.