Where's the bet?

Aaron_ · #1 11-15-2005, 01:56 AM

Here's some insight into a disease I have known as "passivity". MP1 is TAG; the rest are fishies. How bad is my PF call, and where should I have bet if anywhere? Muchas gracias.

Cryptologic 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

River: (7.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB.

bozlax · #2 11-15-2005, 02:07 AM

Whooo..that preflop call is pretty damn awful.

I'm inclined to throw a value-raise/free-card play in on the flop, after MP1 bets, and the Button/SB call. It depends on how aggro MP1 is...will he 3-bet without a monster, because I don't want to face Button and SB with 2 more bets, even if they are donks.

If I raise the flop and it's checked to me on the turn, I probably bet and plan to take the free showdown UI (and I don't count pairing my jack as an improvement).

#3 11-15-2005, 03:20 AM

This is on of those flops that I start to go cross-eyed looking at. It's fairly coordinated and we do have an OESD, but there is a flush draw and one of our straigt cards puts 3 to a better straight on the board. Still, I probably go for the c/r on the flop with our relative position to the pf raiser.

Also, just lay it down preflop. I might consider calling with JTo but I think even that is too loose.

#4 11-15-2005, 03:45 AM

God please don't ever call a raise again with J9o. Small blind, big blind, on the button---NEVER, just not worth it. Plus add that he's a TAG and it makes that play suicidal.

Other than that, I don't see a spot here that warrants a bet by you. MP1 checking the turn improves your chances of having the best hand, but by the river you're still beaten by any K or T, and I don't see you getting called enough by second-best hands on a board like this.

So, you got stuck with a marginal hand out of position against a raiser...which is exactly why you gotta bail before the flop even gets there.

#5 11-15-2005, 03:48 AM

yah, we fold J9 to a raise in the BB. barely connected, not biggish

the rest is fine. you can't figure your 3rd pair is best in this field.

Aaron_ · #6 11-15-2005, 04:58 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys. I didn't necessarily think a C/R was good at the time given the connectedness of the board, and mostly that I'm trapping only one opponent for 2 cold.

I'm on a mission to find out where I'm being too passive (stats show about 1.9 post flop agg. over 1500 hands @ .25/.5). I feel like I've been running cold lately, but who knows.

Thanks again for the input.

ArturiusX · #7 11-15-2005, 05:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Whooo..that preflop call is pretty damn awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe it, have you guys learnt nothing after nearly 3000 posts?

TheMainEvent · #8 11-15-2005, 05:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whooo..that preflop call is pretty damn awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe it, have you guys learnt nothing after nearly 3000 posts?

[/ QUOTE ]

The hyperbole describing preflop play in this forum is a little absurd. There is no way that calling in the BB with a better-than-abysmal hand getting 9-1 can be an awful mistake. It's a couple pennies at worst.

ArturiusX · #9 11-15-2005, 06:48 AM

100% agree.

This is a standard call for me, we can outplay these guys, and J9o is a fine hand when played compotently.

Aaron_ · #10 11-15-2005, 06:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
100% agree.

This is a standard call for me, we can outplay these guys, and J9o is a fine hand when played compotently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh - I was hoping someone would say that. I thought the call was closer than was made out to be. Though, whether or not I'm competent enough to play this well post flop is another consideration altogether.

Thanks for chiming in ye almighty poohbahs [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]