A Mess right from the start...... 4th street decision...

[CJC]

Good Day Fellow 2+2rs.

Actually a tough 10-20 game. Only 1 fish in the game and we have him tapped out at about this time. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
We are 6 handed at the time..

I am forced low with 5s showing and (AcAs) in hole
I bring it in for the three bucks.

Ad to my immed left completed the bet to $10.
Ah right after him makes it $20.

7h and 9s folded.
Kc ( A.K.A fish ) cold calls the $20.

Action back to me and I just call the $20.

Ad to my immed left makes it $30 [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
Ah,Kd,and myself call the additional 10 bucks.

We have $126 bucks in the pot on 3rd..

4th street
-----------
FISH -- K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]
ME --(A [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] )5 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]
MY IMMEDIATE LEFT --A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]
LAST OPPONENT --A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

Action goes ----

Fish Checks ( he has just over $60 bucks left now )
I bet the BIG BET of $20
My immediate left makes it $40
the other Ace makes it $60

The fish wih the Kings goes all in for the $60.

Action to me...

What to do..What to do??

CJ

I swear I had a similar situation almost exactly like this I posted about a few months ago..( and I mean almost exactly !!) I can't seem to find it however.. If someone could post a thread on how to find stuff on here.. That would be cool [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Dynasty]

You should seriously consider folding on 3rd street despite having Aces. You have a dead hand and are going up against 3 opponents. Playing dead hands is the easiest way to bleed chips.

On fourth street, you pray that you aren't up against two flush draws because, if you are, you aren't going to win this hand often enough to justify playing on.

[deadbart]

In 7CSFAP, S&M&Z note that a pair of aces is usually playable even when dead. Honestly, I'd probably raise again on third street. You are clearly ahead of these guys, and you have to charge them the maximum. Your position is not very good for knocking anyone out, so just charge the draws.

On 4th, your hand does look to be in bad shape. But the pot is now huge, so I think it is worth calling.

[Ray Zee]

if its truly a tough line up like you say you must go out on fourth street. the ace ten of hearts hand almost certainly has trip tens. in the event he doesnt you are up against two royal flush draws. or these guys are not tough and the premise is wrong.

[Dynasty]

In 7CSFAP, S&M&Z note that a pair of aces is usually playable even when dead.

But not for two bets with other players showing strength.

[MRBAA]

When you can't get head up with your dead aces (hopefully against someone who doesn't believe you really have aces, as the others two have shown) with your $20 bet on fourth, against the menacing boards showing, you simply can't call the $40 in reraises. You are basically playing for a 5, and even that may not be good if someone else has trips rather than a flush draw.

[CJC]

In most caes, I definately agree with you...

But you believe this is still true coming from two players with Ace as their doorcards, knowing you have both of them beat?

We have an advantage here. We KNOW what they can't have, while they DON'T know what you have.

CJ

[CJC]

Hey MRB,

Remember, only ONE opponent can have trips. And thats the ACE-10, giving him trip tens.

I was somewhat worried ( at first ) that he had the trip tens, but then I thought about it. There was noway ( IMO )this opponent would have three-bet pocket-tens on third!! Especially with a re-raise from another Ace?

CJ

[CJC]

Hello Ray,

Two royal draws is exactly what I put my opponents on.

CJ

[CJC]

Hello,

FIRST OF ALL, I BOO-BOOD in my original post ( not that it matters too much, but It DID in MY analysis of the hands ).
The AK and A10 were REVERSED in positions to me!! ( also the Ah made it $30 on 3rd ) Sorry for any confusion. I just noticed this...
Anywhoo..

Well I folded. ( after alot of hesitation.. ) I knew I had the best hand ( valuewise at the moment )... But I was positive I was up against 2 royal draws that each had 12 outs to beat me. I only had two outs to improve to a boat.
And it was obvious these guys were going to town on each other.

At first I thought they were morons for pounding their draws so much against 2 paired doorcards, but then I got to thinking about it.

1) They knew the kings had anything ( as I did ), plus
each one knew that he didn't have three of them.
2) They both knew I didn't have 3 fives. They knew no way in hell I was calling $20 bucks with a pair of fives against raises from 2 Aces.

And it is THEIR ACTIONS that inspired me to really posted this hand. Hopefully some posters will respond to their play.

Here's the interesting part for the 'What iffers'..
On fifth..

I would have caught the 5h, giving me a boat.
BUT
my the opponent to my immediate left wouldof then caught the JH thereby giving him the royal. [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img]

Ultimately, they BOTH made their flushes. Both had AKQ10 flushes but the AK diamonds caught the 8d and he won the large pot.

All the KK had was the kings and he left the game. So did I after this hand.

Hopefully I got this post right! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Later,
CJ