Raised on the turn

Easystreet · #1 07-31-2005, 01:42 PM

Here is a common situation, villain is unknown having recently joined the game, not played any hands so far so seems tight.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero raises, MP2 calls, Button folds, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB folds, UTG folds, Hero??????

Dave G. · #2 07-31-2005, 01:47 PM

Hero calls down without a read. Regardless of what your read is, you're at least calling the turn.

KingOtter · #3 07-31-2005, 01:50 PM

My read on this type of play is a flopped set, typically. Although some really bad players do this when they've gotten a flush draw on the turn.

If you fold, you need to pay careful attention because they'll try it on you again. I do fold this, sometimes, but usually with a good read. And the pot here is pretty big.

I'd probably call this down.

KO

xGoreDudex · #4 07-31-2005, 01:53 PM

Pre Flop: Raise instead of calling.
Flop: Looks good.
Turn: folding and calling both suck, raise. If your capped
check/fold river UI imo.

Gl.

@bsolute_luck · #5 07-31-2005, 01:54 PM

raise preflop. why didn't you raise?

seems tight? he'll cold call 2 on the flop and then raise here on a 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] that doesn't complete any draws? the only hands i can put reasonably on is: delayed trip 6s, 2s, or trip 9s, or J9s.

i think you're toast. maybe others will give % of times you will be good against a tricky played flush/straight draw here to call profitably.

shadow29 · #6 07-31-2005, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: folding and calling both suck, raise. If your capped
check/fold river UI imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

!!!!

Easystreet · #7 07-31-2005, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. why didn't you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't usually raise AJ o/s in this position, is it a mistake not to do so?

@bsolute_luck · #8 07-31-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. why didn't you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't usually raise AJ o/s in this position, is it a mistake not to do so?

[/ QUOTE ]

with a limper already in: yah. i say it that way only because if the table is tight and i'm first to enter from EP, i limp sometimes.

Deamon2 · #9 07-31-2005, 02:04 PM

does o/s mean offsuit or offsuit and suited? if you're not raising AJs it is a very big mistake. Not raising AJo is much less of a mistake. It generally makes the hand easier to play, however, so it's recommended.

anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

KingOtter · #10 07-31-2005, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. why didn't you raise?

seems tight? he'll cold call 2 on the flop and then raise here on a 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] that doesn't complete any draws? the only hands i can put reasonably on is: delayed trip 6s, 2s, or trip 9s, or J9s.

i think you're toast. maybe others will give % of times you will be good against a tricky played flush/straight draw here to call profitably.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he's getting 11:2 to call down. That's about 5.5:1.

He's got 2 outs vs. a non-J set, and ~4 outs vs. a 2 pair. He certainly doesn't have ODDS to call, but I'm not automatically convinced he's absolutely behind an unknown. Unknown may have A9, and be a complete fruitloop.

But he's got to be good 18% (5.5:1) of the time, and ~8% (complete WAG approximation of draws) of the time he'll hit something that improves him beyond the opponents hand.

It ain't a sure thing, but he's got enough chance that I think a call is in order, IMO.

KO