Another raid at a loacl club

[Jersey Nick]

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I passed after hearing that cops play and the parking lot overflows - too much exposure for my taste.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely. Imagine you lay a bad beat on Officer Friendly. Would he still be Friendly if he pulled you over for a traffic stop the next week?

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Gotta disagree with you there. Any cop you play cards with is much more likely to give you a break than a stranger. Unless after handing him a beat, you jump up and scream like that european retard at last year's WSOP.

[/ QUOTE ]I was just asking the question, but your statement is somewhat reassuring. What I really agree with Midas about is that any NJ game with cops right now would have too much exposure.

[StellarWind]

It appears from the articles that the operators adopted a deliberate strategy of catering to cops and allowing them to play for free as a method of protecting their business.

I don't see a harmless poker room anymore. I see organized crime. Protecting the integrity of law enforcement agencies is very important. Even an appearance of corruption is very bad. I don't blame the DA for taking a hard line if this is what was actually happening.

[Riddler]

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what kind of legitimate social club charges by the hour?

we all know that 99% of the people there had the primary purpose of playing poker, and since they charged by the hour to be there...they are directly profiting by running a gambling house.



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First off, I find this topic interesting, and I like playing Devil's Advocate, (I did not even know Gambling in NJ was legal until this came out other than casinos of course) I hope you do not think I am arguing for the sake of arguing, but.... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So if a social club that charges by the hour then it seems less legitamate.

What about a card game at a Country Club. For example, I am a member at Panther Vally Country Club. I am an associate member. As an associate member, I get to play Golf on certain times, and have access to the club house. Let's say that I do not play Golf, but I like the social aspect of the club. I paid an initial fee, and monthly dues. I only do two activities:

1) I eat at the club house (really only because they make me)

2) I play cards their Once a month. They hold a Hold'em tournament.

Is this more legitimate because I pay monthly vs. hourly? As a member, I would like to pay hourly so I can pay as I go.

[BISCO]

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Is this more legitimate because I pay monthly vs. hourly? As a member, I would like to pay hourly so I can pay as I go.

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but if you read the article, the members are already paying a yearly fee, then a time charge on top of that. your argument doesnt hold up.

if the majority of people in the club are there to gamble, and the club takes money based on how long they are there, then it is obvious that they are making money from gambling.

whereas in every other type of legitimate club, the fees are the same regardless of amount of time you use the country club. they are also taking money in from the activity of golf, rather than a club solely to try and skirt illegal gaming laws. nobody was paying simply to hang out in this club and you know it, and the judge will too.

[Luv2DriveTT]

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It appears from the articles that the operators adopted a deliberate strategy of catering to cops and allowing them to play for free as a method of protecting their business.

I don't see a harmless poker room anymore. I see organized crime. Protecting the integrity of law enforcement agencies is very important. Even an appearance of corruption is very bad. I don't blame the DA for taking a hard line if this is what was actually happening.

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I concur.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Luv2DriveTT]

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I did not even know Gambling in NJ was legal until this came out other than casinos of course

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Its not. Once gambling is organized by a business, or the is a "house" of any kind, then the game becomes illegal. I would assume this technically means the home game where the house asks everyone to chip in to cover his expenses for food, but I doubt home games have anything to worry about here.

What we all tend to forget is all it takes is one irate former player to contact the DA's office or the vice squad to make everyone's life miserable.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Jersey Nick]

Roxbury chief says he told cops to stay clear of club

Officers in gambling case wanted 'lawful' place, attorney says

By Matt Manochio, Daily Record

Roxbury's police chief said he had warned two of his officers not to be involved in the recently raided social club in Dover - which authorities called an illegal gambling operation - back when the club was under construction last fall.

The two officers, Sgt. Richard M. Winstock, 36, of Independence, and patrolman Thomas J. Juskus, 42, of Knowlton, each were charged over the weekend with official misconduct, conspiracy, maintaining a gambling resort and promoting gambling at the 5th Street Club. They were suspended with pay by Roxbury after their arrests.

Darren Gelber, who represents Winstock, said Tuesday the two Roxbury officers did "everything in their power … to ensure that this place was lawful. They went through their chain of command in their own police department, they got proper variances from the town. They talked to other people in law enforcement."

Roxbury Police Chief Mark Noll said Tuesday that he was concerned from the outset, "even before the place opened," and advised the officers not to be involved in the club.

Noll explained that his officers needed to get official clearance if they were to be involved with any work outside of the police department.

"It was last fall sometime," Noll said. "I knew that they were doing construction on this particular place down in Dover. Before you can work an outside job, you have to get permission from the police department."

He said he knew card games would be held at the club, and the only thing his officers had permission to do was to be involved in construction and janitorial duties.

"I thought it was very clear to them that they were not to be involved in any facet of club operations," Noll said.

The chief's mindset regarding the men's participation in the club was, "You're police officers. You really have no business being involved in this type of operation. That was from the very beginning."

According to arrest affidavits, Juskus was an investor in the club, having put up $19,000. Richard Winstock, back in August, told the Dover Board of Adjustment that he was one of the club's owners. His wife, Jennifer, 32, was identified as one of the partners who had taken over her husband's shares and spoke on his behalf.

The Morris County Prosecutor's Office, which raided the 8,000-square-foot club in a warehouse on Richboynton Road, also arrested Jennifer Winstock, who was charged with the same offenses, as was Scott K. Furer, 42, of Lackawaxen, Pa., identified as the day-to-day manager of the business.

'No secret'

Attorneys for both Roxbury police officers said their clients were very up front with their superiors about the club.

"This place was no secret," Gelber said. "If Winstock was looking to engage in criminal activity, this was surely not the way to go about it." Gelber also represents Jennifer Winstock, and said his clients will plead innocent.

He continued, "Quite frankly, given the popularity these days of Texas Hold 'em, if what was going on that club (was illegal) … then I hope (Morris County Prosecutor Michael M. Rubbinaccio) brings all of those same resources to bear against the local fire houses (and) VFWs that advertise in newspapers."

Anthony Arbore, the attorney for Juskus, said Monday his client was innocent and had been up front with authorities about the club.

Authorities have said that the social club was illegal essentially because the owners' allegedly made money off the poker games and gambling allegedly was the club's only reason for existing. The owners, they charged, took a percentage of tips paid to dealers and also charged poker players $10 an hour to play.

Winstock testified before the Dover Board of Adjustment last August to obtain a variance to operate the club in town. He told the board members that card games, including poker, would be played there. He told them a yearly fee would be charged to members in addition to an hourly fee to use all the club's features, including billiards, darts and board games.

"They never took a cut of any gambling activity," Gelber said of his clients.

Rubbinaccio and that office's Chief of Investigations, Joseph A. Devine, said records seized from the club are being scrutinized to see whether other police are involved in the enterprise or listed as any of the 340 recorded club members. Authorities seized $27,000 at the club and searched the two Roxbury officers' lockers at work on Saturday.

Under surveillance

The warehouse had been under surveillance since January. Undercover detectives posing as customers started going inside in March as non-members, where they traded hundreds of dollars for chips to play poker games, prosecutors alleged.

The arrest affidavit states that on April 18, one of the undercovers posing as a patron asked about starting a similar club in Bayonne and got a message from Jennifer Winstock, who said she had taken over her husband's shares of the business and would be the person to whom he would have to talk. Jennifer Winstock confided that her husband had been ordered by Roxbury Police Chief Mark Noll not to go to the club anymore.

The wife told the undercover officer that her husband was awaiting word from the chief, who reportedly was consulting with the prosecutor's office about his role in the club, the affidavit said. On April 24, the undercover officer met with Richard Winstock, who said he started out running poker tournaments at firehouses and confided that he knew an internal investigation was underway into 5th Street Club.

"He acknowledged the possibility that 5th Street Club could be raided at any time," the affidavit said of Winstock's discussion with the undercover. Winstock also claimed the club made between $8,000 and $10,000 in a good week.

Meanwhile Tuesday, some police chiefs in the area expressed surprise about the club's existence and the officers' arrests.

"I hadn't heard (anything) at all," Dover police Chief Harold Valentine said Tuesday. "I have no clue what went on there or what was the membership."

Rockaway Police Chief Gary Farina said he first heard of the club through newspaper accounts of the arrests.

"I knew nothing about it," Farina said. "I was shocked. Sometimes you hear it through the grapevine. I was surprised."

(Jersey Nick comment: Puh-lease! Both of these guys are angling to play Sgt. Schultz in the Hollywood remake of Hogan's Heroes.)

[Luv2DriveTT]

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The warehouse had been under surveillance since January. Undercover detectives posing as customers started going inside in March as non-members, where they traded hundreds of dollars for chips to play poker games, prosecutors alleged.

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This is how past raids occurred in NY as well. The whole paid membership angle can easily be debunked when the undercover officers walk in and play without membership.

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