88 in a huge pot - unfriendly board.

Argus · #1 11-03-2005, 06:13 AM

UTG is a LAG with 50/25/1.5 stats over 350 hands. I haven't noticed anything of interest about his postflop play, except that he pays off second best hands more than he should.

Button is unknown - he's been at the table about an orbit.

SB is another lag - he seems to play worse postflop in terms of calling without odds, etc, but he doesn't pay off as weak made hands (in the time we've spent together). edit: added stats of 54/33/1.3 over 200 hands.

3-betting preflop is obvious, but I didn't expect to have so many callers. What should my flop action be when it's two back to me?
Is the likelihood of an overpair (or even trips) too great to continue taking into consideration that I may get flushed as well?

Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero?

Stefan_K · #2 11-03-2005, 07:04 AM

Against many other players i would have strongly considered folding because every turncard will be a scared card. but against this two lags i would contineu and i think i would do it with a coldcall to try to find out more about their strenth so that i can fold the turn if given strong action

spydog · #3 11-03-2005, 07:29 AM

Cap. You want to face the button with 3 cold because he likely has 2 overcards to your pair and reducing the field from 3 to 2 greatly increases your equity in this pot. Plus, this flop is getting capped a lot of times anyway, but this is your only chance to face the button with 3 bets instead of 2 and 1.

After capping I would be treading very carefully on the turn. There are too many possible scenarios, so you might want to post this hand in stages (if you stayed in the hand).

jt1 · #4 11-03-2005, 08:11 AM

agreed -- cap and take it from there

goofball · #5 11-03-2005, 09:50 AM

Definitely can't fold against the two LAGS. This is the perfect time to cap force otu the only other reasonable player.

Chobohoya · #6 11-03-2005, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Cap. You want to face the button with 3 cold because he likely has 2 overcards to your pair and reducing the field from 3 to 2 greatly increases your equity in this pot. Plus, this flop is getting capped a lot of times anyway, but this is your only chance to face the button with 3 bets instead of 2 and 1.

After capping I would be treading very carefully on the turn. There are too many possible scenarios, so you might want to post this hand in stages (if you stayed in the hand).

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks just right.

Argus · #7 11-03-2005, 03:50 PM

Most people are saying to cap - I'd like to know your plans for the turn on various cards. How do you play if a heart falls? (I have odds to draw to a full house, but I could get trapped between raising lags.) How do you play if an ace falls? What about another overcard? What about a 6? A 7? The pot is going to be huge, but I'm also in a really tough spot, so I'd like to know what you advocate for all the possible turn cards.

Catt · #8 11-03-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most people are saying to cap - I'd like to know your plans for the turn on various cards. How do you play if a heart falls? (I have odds to draw to a full house, but I could get trapped between raising lags.) How do you play if an ace falls? What about another overcard? What about a 6? A 7? The pot is going to be huge, but I'm also in a really tough spot, so I'd like to know what you advocate for all the possible turn cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah. Just cap now and we'll deal with the turn when it comes.

Spicymoose · #9 11-03-2005, 06:26 PM

A lot of people are saying cap, but I don't think this is right. First of all, button is already going to have to call a check/raise and check/3-bet. Do you really think your cap is going to change all that much? Sure, occasionally it gets him out, but I think a lot of overcards are already picturing themselves as drawing dead, and will fold anyway.

I think you should call and see what happens. If SB caps you are almost certainly behind his set. It seems UTG almost definetly has an overpair, but he could potentially have A7s, or some other random holding. You have about 3 outs if you are behind, and getting about 10:1, plus huge implied odds, and the fact that you may currently be ahead.

Catt · #10 11-03-2005, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people are saying cap, but I don't think this is right. First of all, button is already going to have to call a check/raise and check/3-bet. Do you really think your cap is going to change all that much? Sure, occasionally it gets him out, but I think a lot of overcards are already picturing themselves as drawing dead, and will fold anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Button is unknown; but he may very well know that the other two are raging LAGs. Calling gives him 22:2 with the possibility of being capped; overs plus a BDFD might get comfortable calling that here to have a look at the turn. Capping gives him 23:3 and also has the PF 3-bettor now capping the flop. It gets quite a bit more difficult to call with an unpaired hand, BDFD or not in this situation. If we have enough to call (and we most certainly do against this line-up IMHO) then I think it well worth it to throw another bet on top in order to increase the chances of driving out the Button.

I don't think you can intrepret a flop cap from either of these guys as a set and/or an overpair. Yes, they're very reasonable holdings, but so are other retarded hands like 89, x7, PPs like 66, 44, 33, 22, and any big FD. Regardless, we're likely going to have a delicate turn decision.