Who value bets this river?

obsidian · #1 06-02-2005, 08:27 AM

Both villains are loose passive.

Ultimate Bet 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero ??

@bsolute_luck · #2 06-02-2005, 08:31 AM

not me (but i suck at value betting anyways [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) flush and straight both beat you here.

Rhone · #3 06-02-2005, 10:40 AM

It seems like an important question here is what your image at the table has been. Even bad, loose passive players make adjustments to their opponents. If you have a very aggressive image going, I'd say that increases the chances of an attempted CR here quite a bit.

reb · #4 06-02-2005, 11:01 AM

Hero bets and folds to a raise

krishanleong · #5 06-02-2005, 11:04 AM

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Hero bets and folds to a raise

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I don't like it. I'd at least consider bet-call.

Krishan

MrWookie47 · #6 06-02-2005, 12:05 PM

I don't think there's any way I could fold my 2nd set to a single raise. I think the options are bet/call 1 more or fold to 2 more, or just check it.

JrJordan · #7 06-02-2005, 12:09 PM

How weak would it be to check here? Pot is fairly large so I imagine an decent 1 pair hand for the villains will be worth a call on their part. So you're getting 2BB when you bet out and are ahead. Likewise, a bet/call when someone c/r's you is going to cost you 2BB as well, though sometimes a straight may just call this down as well because of the risk of a flush. I probably bet/call, unless its two bets back to me and MAYBE if the first player checkraises, and the second cold calls, then perhaps I can find a fold.

Grisgra · #8 06-02-2005, 12:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero bets and folds to a raise

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I don't like it. I'd at least consider bet-call.

Krishan

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River checkraises tend to mean a lot of strength regardless of the player -- a loose passive just plain isn't checkraising here with less than a straight.

The problem is that you have to worry about the flush -- given the 4-straight on board a straight almost definitely bets this, and if that's all that was out there, this is an obvious value-bet. I think that bet/fold is probably best, but I'd probably either bet/call bcs I'm a fish, or check behind, because I'm a wuss.

krishanleong · #9 06-02-2005, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]

River checkraises tend to mean a lot of strength regardless of the player -- a loose passive just plain isn't checkraising here with less than a straight.

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This is also a pretty heavy 2-pair board. So what happens is BB checks his 2 pair to see if UTG has a straight and when you bet, he thinking my 2-pair is good and raises. Or BB folds and UTG decides to take a shot. At 11-1 I think you snap off enough bluffs to be profitable.

I would fold from a cr from UTG if BB calls. Otherwise I think I call the cr.

Krishan

hypermegachi · #10 06-02-2005, 12:58 PM

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At 11-1 I think you snap off enough bluffs to be profitable.

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given the size of the pot i don't think anyone is raising to make someone fold. they are raising for value.