Do I need to pay this off??

[banditdad]

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Actually you couldn't pick a better flop to auto bet given the board and opponents.

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Can you give us an example of a flop where you would check behind, or sometimes check behind?

/mc

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KKx, QQx, KQx, TJJ, etc.. Not many. Normally I'm making a continuation bet. As would most players in a shorthanded small stakes game. If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.

With this board if someone hit the flush or staright and is looking to c/r I want to know it with one sb. I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you.

"I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you."

You're not giving a free card, you're taking one. The continuation bet takes this pot down on the flop just about never. You more than likely do not have the best hand, equity-wise, at the moment. You need to improve to win. It is checked to you. Why on earth would betting be superior to taking the free card here?

[jt1]

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You're not giving a free card, you're taking one.

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[banditdad]

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"I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you."

You're not giving a free card, you're taking one. The continuation bet takes this pot down on the flop just about never. You more than likely do not have the best hand, equity-wise, at the moment. You need to improve to win. It is checked to you. Why on earth would betting be superior to taking the free card here?

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You are not trying to take the pot down. While it is not the exact scenario I would refer you to part 5 of SSHE. I could probably find the similar passage in ITH but I don't feel like looking.


If you really believe that by checking on the flop you are taking, not giving a free card you need to rethink your game. I really don't care how many 2+2ers post otherwise: This is a weak play guaranteed to allow someone to catch up.
I am only to happy to take the free card when I am on the draw and the raiser checks on the button. If I hit my out I am going to play it just like the villian here did. Call the turn and raise the river and you are toast. However, if you had bet out on the flop there is a good chance that, almost a certainty, that one player will fold and a good chance that 2 will fold. If I am on a gutshot or need one more club I may fold depending on the odds, And if I have paired my 4,5,6, (which I wouldn't have played to begin with but that's a different subject), I would consider a fold here and probably folded to the turn bet with an A on board if I have a weak pair with no redraw.

Yor are the raiser. You are not taking a free card by checking, you are giving free cards to 3 other players. You are allowing them to catch up.

BTW, just as an aside. The A9 should probably not have been played to begin with, but that's a different discussion.

Could all of you who would check the flop here please PM the sites you play at? I'd like to join your games.

[LoaferGee12]

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Ok. Let's assume for the moment that all of you who would check the flop are correct. Why? I gave my reasons why I thought a flop bet was correct what are your reasons for thinking that a check is correct? My play may be wrong. This is poker not rocket science and I'm a recreational player not a pro so I very well could be wrong. But I need more of a reason than just because we say so.

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"I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you."

You're not giving a free card, you're taking one. The continuation bet takes this pot down on the flop just about never. You more than likely do not have the best hand, equity-wise, at the moment. You need to improve to win. It is checked to you. Why on earth would betting be superior to taking the free card here?

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This was a post from earlier on. To add on to this, you will get check-raised here often and you'll have to fold to that check-raise, when you would've had a chance to improve as you did in this hand if you had just checked.

[MicroBob]

there have been many posts throughout this thread explaining the logic behind checking through on the flop.

Basically, you want to be taking a free card (and not afraid of 'giving' one). There has actually been some reasonable depth describing why you would want to do this.

I don't see how one could say that everybody else in this whole thread is just saying 'because we say so' regarding the flop-check because there has been much said to back up that logic.

[Monty Cantsin]

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Can you give us an example of a flop where you would check behind, or sometimes check behind?

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KKx, QQx, KQx, TJJ, etc..

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I would be more inclined to bet these, especially the first two.

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Normally I'm making a continuation bet. As would most players in a shorthanded small stakes game. If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.


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I'm glad you've figured out how to continuation bet, welcome to the ranks of the novice poker player.

So far in this thread you've: misread the action, given out sketchy advice, and shown no indication of being able to think beyond the most rudimentary, beginner-level, fortune-cookie rules of thumb (Charge the draws! Define your hand!) So I find your attempt to condescend bizarre. Nice use of "myriad" though, Gandalf.

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With this board if someone hit the flush or staright and is looking to c/r I want to know it with one sb.

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Really? How often do you think a c/r here is a made flush or straight? How often do you think you're currently ahead? How often do you think you'll be ahead by the river? How often are you drawing live? Dead? How often is a bet going to fold a hand that you would like to fold?

I don't think the answers to these questions are obvious, but I'm pretty sure they are the right questions to ask in this situation. Unlike you, I think this situation is fairly complex and interesting, but I'm not a continuation bet expert like yourself.

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I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one.

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So, you would be more inclined to check behind if this was heads up? Are you sure you aren't just trolling me now?

/mc

[waffle]

Very easy flop check. This is a no-brainer. If I had to fabricate a situation where it was clearly correct to check on the flop after raising PF, it would look almost exactly like this hand.

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If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.


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Wow, dude. Monty's location shows that he's done more digging around in the archives (an excellent source of poker information) than you ever have. And he's still trying to help you after you kick dirt in his face. I'd be appreciative.

Your arguments against checking:

"Showing weakness" - lol. [censored], I fold 80% of my hands preflop, that's pretty weak isn't it?
"Allowing the others to catch up" - Yeah, we're definitely a huge favorite to win this pot. ...

[banditdad]

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Very easy flop check. This is a no-brainer. If I had to fabricate a situation where it was clearly correct to check on the flop after raising PF, it would look almost exactly like this hand.

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If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.


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Wow, dude. Monty's location shows that he's done more digging around in the archives (an excellent source of poker information) than you ever have. And he's still trying to help you after you kick dirt in his face. I'd be appreciative.

Your arguments against checking:

"Showing weakness" - lol. [censored], I fold 80% of my hands preflop, that's pretty weak isn't it?
"Allowing the others to catch up" - Yeah, we're definitely a huge favorite to win this pot. ...

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We're not discussing preflop play, we're discusiing postflop play. You are aware there is a difference? Comparing the 2 is like apples and oranges. If you want to discuss Hero's preflop play this raise is marginal at best, but if raised the flop should be bet out.

No we are not a huge favorite to win. That is one of the reasons for betting, to increase our chances of winning.

[banditdad]

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Can you give us an example of a flop where you would check behind, or sometimes check behind?

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KKx, QQx, KQx, TJJ, etc..

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I would be more inclined to bet these, especially the first two.

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Normally I'm making a continuation bet. As would most players in a shorthanded small stakes game. If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.


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I'm glad you've figured out how to continuation bet, welcome to the ranks of the novice poker player.

So far in this thread you've: misread the action, given out sketchy advice, and shown no indication of being able to think beyond the most rudimentary, beginner-level, fortune-cookie rules of thumb (Charge the draws! Define your hand!) So I find your attempt to condescend bizarre. Nice use of "myriad" though, Gandalf.

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With this board if someone hit the flush or staright and is looking to c/r I want to know it with one sb.

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Really? How often do you think a c/r here is a made flush or straight? How often do you think you're currently ahead? How often do you think you'll be ahead by the river? How often are you drawing live? Dead? How often is a bet going to fold a hand that you would like to fold?

I don't think the answers to these questions are obvious, but I'm pretty sure they are the right questions to ask in this situation. Unlike you, I think this situation is fairly complex and interesting, but I'm not a continuation bet expert like yourself.

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I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one.

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So, you would be more inclined to check behind if this was heads up? Are you sure you aren't just trolling me now?

/mc

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I didn't post anywhere that I would be more inclined to check HU.

Ah, you found me out. I'm just a novice player and you are the expert. Just keep playing that weak/tight game. I'm sure you've done well so far. Anytime you feel like posting your last 100,000 PT 2/4 stats feel free.