KT - weird 3 way hand with a known retard

Isura · #1 05-18-2005, 09:02 PM

UTG is a retard. I've seen him do stuff like limp/raise with QTs, limp in with monsters and call down the whole way. He's also known for making retarded bets in weird spots, and I've he had previously 3-bet 47s from the SB and calldown UI . But overall he's passive, with the random moments of aggression. No reads on the other player.

- Preflop cool given my read?
- Turn I'm not sure. I'd still like to protect my hand with SB still in, and UTG could be betting with almost anything here. I'm not sure if there is a better line in this situation.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

wrto4556 · #2 05-18-2005, 10:04 PM

Any read on the SB?

It looks like UTG hit an 8 or is acting like it. I would call him down but the SB makes me uncomfortable.

kapw7 · #3 05-18-2005, 10:24 PM

On the turn fold or raise depending on how confident you are with your reads. Raising can eliminate the SB, punish UTG if he's bluffing and buy a free showdown if you want to take it. And get more info FWIW. I think calling is the worst option.

wrto4556 · #4 05-18-2005, 10:32 PM

I thought about the turn raise...I had an arguement for why it would suck, but I can't think of it anymore. I think I wanted a read on SB first.

StellarWind · #5 05-19-2005, 12:41 AM

Raise or fold the turn to apply maximum pressure on SB. Assuming you have the best hand SB must have a lot of outs. Make him pay the maximum to draw out on you. Once he sees the river he probably will not overcall with a worse hand and your chance to collect from him is gone.

However my diagnosis based on your description is that UTG is *primarily* a calling station who does sporadic spastic things. That means you are playing a nasty parlay:

1. UTG is bluffing even though he probably isn't. Note that your hand is too weak to 'catch' many hands such as Qx and AT that qualify as out-of-line in this situation.

2. SB is behind you even though he called two cold on the flop and caught a really dangerous card. I would happily bet even money that SB is currently ahead of you.

3. None of the zillion outs they must have is going to hit on the river.

Against this you may have some outs of your own, but overall I think you should just give up and fold the turn.

Final thought: even players like UTG sometimes respect that SB's presence in the hand makes this a bad time to screw around.

Justin A · #6 05-19-2005, 02:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought about the turn raise...I had an arguement for why it would suck, but I can't think of it anymore. I think I wanted a read on SB first.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have one. I think UTG will bet into you again on the river. Seriously.

Kasumeat · #7 05-19-2005, 04:17 AM

I don't think you can raise here, because you can't fold to a 3-bet with your read.

RunDownHouse · #8 05-19-2005, 08:50 AM

I think folding to a 3bet would be pretty easy, even given the read. The SB sticking around on the flop means either a Q or the straight draw, in which case your K could be pretty tainted. If SB calls two cold on the turn, its an easy fold to 3bet. Even if SB bows out, calling the 3bet would oblige you to calling the river UI, and that's not a good idea with second pair-second kicker against all but the most maniacal of players.

UTG may be a donk, but reraises on the big streets mean business.