88 100-200 hand

[mike l.]

this hand was inspired by this forum. i wouldve played this hand a lot differently in the past. the question is whether i played it the correctly.

this was from last week, 3 handed 1-2 commerce. it's a hand against a bb i described like this in a previous post: "bb is a mediocre semi-nit taking what looks like a shot, he seems very nervous. in previous encounters this guy has killed me but that was a couple years ago. anyway i know he joined our short game because im in it so i want especially badly to punish him."

im in the sb w/ 8d8c. button folds, i raise, bb 3 bets. i call.

the flop is Jd7d2d. i check call.

the turn is Jh. i check call.

the river is 6c. i bet.

[bugstud]

I like this one, most A highs will call and generally a better hand can't raise w/o trips or better here, especially given your description.

[mike l.]

"I like this one"

but should i have been more aggro on the flop or turn? was i playing scared? after all we're 3 handed and i have a pocket pair.

[Steve Giufre]

I think you played it fine. I'm not in love with a turn checkraise, but I think most of the time I would checkraise the flop and lead on the turn. This way you dont give him a chance to check behind on 4th with something like AQ. I think your line is OK too though.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I think most of the time I would checkraise the flop and lead on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

[Ulysses]

3-handed I probably toss in an extra bet or two somewhere along the way.

[mike l.]

if i were to checkraise the turn for instance and he 3 bet should i call down? or what?

i think the fear of something like that happened held me back.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
if i were to checkraise the turn for instance and he 3 bet should i call down? or what?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I don't mind 3 bets on the turn against this guy based on your description of what he thinks of you. I could see him easily 3-betting you with a worse hand, expecting you to checkraise holding any big diamond.

[Ikke]

I would have check-raised the flop here. Basically, I think if you get aggressive on the flop here you're most likely to get the best reward/risk ratio if you consider his whole hand range and is the least exploitable (did that make sense? having a hard time putting it in words).

With this kind of flop he really needs to be suspicious and therefore can't let go of many hands. The same applies to you...you should get to showdown on this hand. Check-raising the turn will likely make HIS play easier...he's likely to 3-bet with better hands than yours and you can't lay down. He might also make a decent laydown with A high no diamond or check the turn through with a better diamond no pair.

You give almost no info away by check-raising the flop. Yes, he might make fancy turn plays but you shouldnt mind that. They won't add much to his EV because your hand is quite uncertain for him and you're not going to lay down. For instance, he could easily make the raise the turn check the river play. You don't mind that...your likely optimum EV against his handrange is when 2 big bets go in after the flop anyway. Hope that made any sense as well.

Where it comes down to is that by check-raising the flop I really feel that you extract most against lesser hands and lose less against better hands. It's IMO approaching the optimal play. This might change if you have a strong read on the player though. For instance if he really is in the mode of pushing you around. Then you might want to give him the best opportunity to do so. But to decide that I should have been there.

Regards

BTW...I would also strongly consider 4-betting preflop.

[mike l.]

doesnt really matter at all for this one, but for the curious, he called my bet and my hand was good. he didnt show.