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  #1  
Old 06-30-2005, 01:08 AM
joop joop is offline
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Default call this?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero...?
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2005, 01:13 AM
jgorham jgorham is offline
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Default Re: call this?

This hand shows that you have some weak/tight tendencies. On the turn, what hands could you be getting raised with? Sure he could have a bigger flush, but more likely he has a big pair, 2 pair, a set, a pair and a draw etc. You really need to 3bet the turn, and it isn't close.

Also folding the river would be pretty silly, as the board never paired.
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2005, 01:14 AM
pokerjunky pokerjunky is offline
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Default Re: call this?

Man that's a tough one. I don't think you're good often enough to call two cold but it's also somewhat dependant on what your read on button is. If he's overly aggressive I'd call.
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  #4  
Old 06-30-2005, 01:48 AM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: call this?

I don't like the flop bet.
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2005, 02:09 AM
Jake (The Snake) Jake (The Snake) is offline
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Default Re: call this?

Why not? Not saying I defenitely disagree I just want to know your reasoning.
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2005, 02:34 AM
mosch mosch is offline
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Default Re: call this?

hero should have three-bet the turn, instead of giving a cheap draw to anybody with a diamond bigger than a 5.

hero's lousy turn play makes the river annoying. hero's hand is good enough to cold-call and let UTG overcall.
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2005, 02:41 AM
joop joop is offline
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Default Re: call this?

Not sure what hero was thinking in this hand, the only street I stand by is the flop. Definately agree with 3betting the turn, in hindsight.
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2005, 03:07 AM
mantasm mantasm is offline
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Default Re: call this?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do. They'll both fold a good amount of the time, maybe even more than 1/4.5. You get a little value when they both call and you'll frequently improve to a winning hand. I can't see what's not to like.

This should have been a turn 3 bet.
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  #9  
Old 06-30-2005, 12:50 PM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: call this?

Generally the higher your flush draw the more inclined you should be to bet it. With a nut or K-high flush draw, you can also win when you pair your overcard. Here, you have virtually the nut low unless you make a flush, and 2 opponents is exactly the number I don't want to bet against. If they're going to fold the flop, then they might check it through, and catch a pair when we catch a diamond -- remember, they have 6 outs to pair up and we have 9 to hit a flush.

I also wouldn't like to get raised because our flush is coming in 35% of the time and a raise could get this heads-up where we have to put in 50% of the money. It's not as much a value bet as everyone thinks it is.

I wish I could find the old post in here from someone smarter than me who pointed out why it's often correct to just check small flush draws in first position on the flop.
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  #10  
Old 06-30-2005, 12:58 PM
Padawan Learner Padawan Learner is offline
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Default Re: call this?

private joker:

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

With only 3 players in, I think you take this down with a flop bet fairly often. If there were 5 or 6 in the field, then I think a check to see who bets from where is a good idea.
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