defending against the stop and go

[JasonKGB]

Here is my hypothetical set-up for a NL tournament: you raise in the cutoff in to about half the size of the big blind's short stack with a smallish pair like 44. The button and sb fold and the BB calls half his stack.

As soon as he calls, you realize that he will be pushing the remainder of his stack in on the flop no matter what cards show up. You give him a range of hands of something like any pair, any ace, any two cards 9 or higher.

The flop comes and he shoves the rest in. You are now getting about 3-1 plus any dead money from the sb and antes. If you know this is coming anyways, what range of flops can you make a call on. Clearly if you hit your set, its an easy call, but what about bigger suited, connected flops. What if you are raising with something else like AK or AJ, now what range of flops can you make this call on?

[citanul]

the defense against a stop and go is to call the push post flop. if you've gotten yourself into a spot where you would have called preflop (clearly) if he'd pushed, and your hand has any showdown value at all, you should probably call post flop. given that you have 44, you should go with your read and likely call on all flops.

[DJ Sensei]

Getting 3-1, I don't think you can ever fold here knowing that he's pushing any flop.

[Benal]

Two choices..

1- If you know he'll do what you described, then its an obvious call, otherwise fold preflop.

2- Raise enough preflop to put him all in.

[ZootMurph]

I agree with posters who say here this should be a call preflop. But, if you feel the need to raise instead of calling, then raise his whole stack instead of half. That puts all the pressure on him, since you have no more decisions to make.

[Rizen]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with posters who say here this should be a call preflop. But, if you feel the need to raise instead of calling, then raise his whole stack instead of half. That puts all the pressure on him, since you have no more decisions to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

For those of you that feel this way, he is in the CO. If he would fold to a massive raise from the Button or SB, he's better off raising half the BBs stack then calling any post-flop push based on his read IMO. He certainly doesn't want to have to fold to a huge raise from the Button or SB here.

-Rizen

[DJ Sensei]

Yea, I agree with rizen. The appropriate raise is the smallest one that will commit the shortstack if he calls (as in, you're committed to putting him all in and he knows it). Unless this is a small enough raise that the button or SB would be more likely to resteal (no minraises).

If villain has 1000 chips after a blind of 200, for example, a raise to 600 or 700 is fine. If he goes all in, you're getting better than 3-1 on a call, and the button or SB will probably need a solid hand to try and play back at you.

[illegit]

If I'm on a big stack i ask myself "what would I have done if he had pushed PF?" and act accordingly, which means I call. This changes if the play is coming from a player who likely isn't aware of what a stop-n-go is.

[ZootMurph]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with posters who say here this should be a call preflop. But, if you feel the need to raise instead of calling, then raise his whole stack instead of half. That puts all the pressure on him, since you have no more decisions to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

For those of you that feel this way, he is in the CO. If he would fold to a massive raise from the Button or SB, he's better off raising half the BBs stack then calling any post-flop push based on his read IMO. He certainly doesn't want to have to fold to a huge raise from the Button or SB here.

-Rizen

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my fault for not retaining what I read when posting. It is DEFINITELY a call in my opinion from CO. I agree with Rizen 100% [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with posters who say here this should be a call preflop. But, if you feel the need to raise instead of calling, then raise his whole stack instead of half. That puts all the pressure on him, since you have no more decisions to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

But doesn't rasing half his stack tell you more about how he likes or dislikes his hand? If you put him all in, he may call with a marginal hand just to double up or go to a cash game.

If you raise half his stack, he might think 'hmm, 1.5 or 0.5 (instead of double or nothing). The prospect of playing with 0.5 of his current stack may make him fold a marginal hand or raise a good hand, in which case you could fold.