Led Zeppelin

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Most people will tell you that Pearl Jam started the 'grunge music' movement, which is not true.

the whole explosion can be traced to the very first notes on Track 1 on Nevermind - Smells Like Teen Spirit.

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lol. Heck, Neil Diamond PWNS Nirvana 10 times over.

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Jimmy Hendrix is a much better guitar player than Led Zeppelin.

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yeah i agree with that, but stevie ray vaughn is better than hendrix

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Really? Anyone else disagree.

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What's everyone's favorite Hendrix acoustic song?

lol.

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How about Kashmir, for one? How many times are we going to repeat the same two frikken riffs? I don't understand how anyone can listen to this for more than one verse.


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Kashmir is about subtlety. It's about the faint sound of those horns that you can hear later in the song. And Plant's 14-second "BeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAA AAHAAAAH...." (been).

The da-na-na, da-na-na... and the DA-da, DA-da, DA-DA, DAAA-da, DA-daaa, da-na-na are just distractions for people who aren't musical enough to appreciate subtlety. I'm not implying this is you.

Also, it helps to imagine you are driving through Kashmir when listening to the song. Yeah, there was actually a concept behind that song. Imagine that. Page got the idea while riding down a long and monotonous road in Kashmir, and wanted a song to match.

It was born out of something else. It isn't just a riffathon jackfest.

[imported_The Vibesman]

"BeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAA AAHAAAAH...."

That's real subtle.

As for the horns later in the song, I wouldn't know; it's very rare I can make it to "later in the song."

I consider Zep a lot of things; subtle isn't one of them.

But hey, I get laughed at a lot for telling people they don't appreciate the subtlety of John Mellencamp, so take it for what it's worth.

I used to really like Zep. Maybe in ten years I'll like them again.

Of course Zep was subtle. There are tons of nuances in their music that aren't appreciated by the average listener.

tons. I could point to something in every one of their songs that is subtle, and additionally, is not heard in modern rock music.

Respectfully,
phb

[imported_The Vibesman]

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I could point to something in every one of their songs that is subtle, and additionally, is not heard in modern rock music.

Respectfully,
phb

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With all due respect, I doubt that.

But, to each his own. I'm out, yo.

[zephed]

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Jimmy Page has some nice riffs, but his playing is nowhere near the level of self-expression that a Jimi Hendrix or a Stevie Ray Vaughan exhibits.

I find a lot of their live performances rather self-indulgent.


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I find these two statements to be contradictory. You think Zep's live performances were self-indulgent but SRV's not? IMO, SRV is the epitome of the self-indulgent blues rock guitarist. Yes he was a really great guitarist and plays expressive solos, but his songwriting ability doesn't compare to Page's.

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Except for the bit about SRV being a great guitarist who plays expressive solos, I disagree with everything here. I think a song is more than just a good riff. Page never wrote anything on a level with "Lenny," "Riviera Paradise," or "Couldn't Stand The Weather," or "Life Without You." This is naturally a matter of personal preference, probably.


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If you think Page "just wrote riffs, not songs", there really is no point in continuing this argument because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Those songs you mention are just blues jams. Really doesn't take a lot of songwriting ability to play lead over the progression. However, he does play amazing lead.

For the fun of firing right back at ya, I'll submit:
In the Light-omg it's a riff, but it isn't just a riff for riff's sake. There's two riffs in the song, one has a downward winding movement to it, the other moves upward. Great use of contrast, you can really tell that Jimmy Page had a vision for the song.

The Song Remains The Same-Great intro. He uses a sliding d chord figure that progressively builds up more dissonance, and then lets it all out on a release chord (back to d IIRC). His main riff/chord prog. gives the song movement & he uses a breakdown section to give the song contrast between the light/heavy. This is what I consider songwriting, not soloing over a chord progression.

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That and the fact that you can't really listen to a Zep album without coming across something they completely ripped off from someone and don't give credit for. I'm not just talking about styles, I'm talking about entire verses and choruses, sometimes entire songs that go uncredited.

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This is undoubtedly true and unfortunate with respect to the lyrics. Robert Plant did not do his job on many songs in the early years. However, Jimmy Page definitely didn't just cop old blues songs, they were his own.

Also, ripping off blues songs is not something that is unique to Zep. Robert Johnson himself stole entire blues songs from his predecessors.

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I know this, but I find the plagiarism a lot more offensive when the band doing it is on such a higher level of commercial success than the people they are ripping off.


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I understand where you're coming from here. Robert certainly could have done better to merely imitate and not flat out rip off old blues lyrics. Jimmy Page, being in charge in the studio, and aware of his blues roots should have given proper credit.

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I also don't think that playing a few more power chords in the turnaround and playing a bit faster/louder means Page "made old blues songs his own." The guy wrote riffs, not songs.

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This is simply ridiculous.

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Usually when I come across a Zep tune on the radio I'll listen for a while (unless it's Kashmir, which I think is one of the most boring popular songs ever), but I'll be flipping before the end of the song.

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It's just not your cup of tea. It is an excellent song.

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If it is, it is the most boring excellent song ever. Sounds to me like the same two uninteresting motifs over and over again with some trippy-dippy mystical lyrics that don't really mean anything. (I hardly ever make it to the bridge - the "I'm on my way" bit) Again, I'm well aware that this is just my opinion. That's what OP was asking for.

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OK.

Led Zeppelin is not "my own", sir. They are everyone's, but yours apparently.

- phb

[zephed]

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In my experience it seems like Brits prefer LZ far less than Americans. In fact, Zeppelin reached fame status in America if I remember correctly.

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They did a fuckton of tours in the early days. I also think that American FM radio had something to do with it. I'm not sure, but I think radio was gov't controlled in UK.

[bernie]

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Most people will tell you that Pearl Jam started the 'grunge music' movement, which is not true.

the whole explosion can be traced to the very first notes on Track 1 on Nevermind - Smells Like Teen Spirit.

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lol. Heck, Neil Diamond PWNS Nirvana 10 times over.

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Whatever that means...

b