Hand rankings

[RickyG]

You're not supposed to raise that?

Go figure.

[PorscheNGuns]

Yes, I will limp late with KKxx if I'm confident there wont be a raise (like sometimes if a player just lost his whole stack but has $3 left in front of him, he'll usually tilt the last 3 off or situations of that nature). Your looking to flop a King obviously, and at the low stakes PLO, if you just start betting out, people will chase you with middle and bottom sets, and flush draws. If there is both a flush and straight draw on the flop, then I tend to be hesitant, and virtually stop dead into a big field (you dont want to be going head on into a 17 out hand or 13 out hand).

-Matt

[texman]

your hand selection is pretty tight - what % of hands do you see the flop with - and do you play that tight on the button and the b linds?

[PorscheNGuns]

I'm usually somewhere between 25% and 32% after a 1000 hand winning session.

It is pretty tight, but at Party's $25, $50, and $100, staying tight preflop and straightforward postflop seems to be holding up for keeping variance down and profits steady. Tricky plays detailed in Ciaffone and TJ's books trick good/great players, but a whole different playbook is required for new/bad/clueless/gambling players.

Im not sure what kind of players play at 200, 400, 1000, or 2000 PLO on Party, though I'd imagine there is a healthier mix of good players.

-Matt

[Big Dave D]

How you play preflop is of tiny consequence in PLO. I have known winning players who play just over 50% of their hands, and raise with half of them, to 30% preflop, and raising with maybe a third.

Its the other streets that are the key.

gl

Dave

Poker Blog! Omaha Galore!

[PorscheNGuns]

I disagree. I think preflop selection may be of lesser importance compared to other forms of poker, but your preflop play in PLO forms the foundation for your entire style and play thereafter IMO

-Matt

[Big Dave D]

I'm not sure what you mean by "foundation". If you mean that you need to understand how to play a wide range of situations, based on how you get to them in the first place preflop, then yes I would agree. But I didnt comment on this.

Where I am absolutely sure I am right, and I dont use that phrase lightly, is that any grouping or ranking or value based system would have only beginners value as opposed to limit holdem where some players clearly make money just by playing better preflop - at least online.

Let me give an example. Most good players in the 15-30 ring limit games on Party have a VIP of between 17-22. There is almost no deviation from this. A guy playing 40% of his hands, by definition, MUST be a losing player.

Yet I have seen comparable examples in PLO the live long day. And both were winners.

gl

Dave
Poker Blog! Omaha Galore!

[BluffTHIS!]

Dave, I certainly agree that postflop play is where the money is made in pot limit omaha, and that some very tight players for whom aces constitute a sizeable proportion of their hands played when not in an unraised blind are probably long term losers since they can't get away from them in multiway pots or very bad boards when they don't already have at least half their stack in preflop.

Nonetheless, as porsche pointed out, starting standards are the foundation that enables you to play well postflop, and playing too many hands in any form of poker is just playing too loose and leads to either loosing or not winning as much as one should. There is all the difference in the world in playing a hand with a suited dangler like KQJ2 in early position with a big stack and playing it near the button. You are most likely going to flop a draw with it, and being out of position against other drawing players who have a 4th card working is just a recipe for disaster long term.

[Big Dave D]

Bluff,

I'm not sure you are disagreeing with what I said. That's what I meant by my first paragraph. But continuing the theme, some people play those marginal situations very well. Its also the reason I dont do the out of position raising thing. I know it doesnt suit my post flop gameplan. Yet some winning players delight in it.

gl

Dave

[Tilt]

Thanks everyone. The point system is helpful.

I am playing alot of low limit Omaha hi these days - very profitable. Preflop play is actually the only part that taxes my brain at all. The rest is pretty automatic.