3/6, Nut flush vs 3 bet

UCLAseetoK · #1 12-20-2005, 03:05 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO (poster) calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (11.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.16 BB

UTG is a TAG that might be a tpt'er. This is his 4th hand on the table, so I have no reads as to what he thinks this table might be like yet.

Am I ahead of enough of a TAG's c/3-betting range here to raise behind on the turn? I think I should've raised and called down the rest of the way. And yes, I know I missed the cap on the flop (this is a cap on the flop if this guy has anything but a set right? two pair?)

MicK412 · #2 12-20-2005, 03:15 AM

The only reasonable hand that beats you that UTG limps preflop would be KJ. He's obviously raising 99, JJ and KK if he's a TAG. QT is just as likely as KJ if those are his limping standards. I would cap flop and raise turn, calling down from there if he 3bets turn.

Nick C · #3 12-20-2005, 03:26 AM

Hmm. What's the TAG limping with that he likes so much on the flop? 99? KJs? QTs?

Well, that seems like a range. (Flush draws seem out, since so many broadway cards are taken.)

99 = 3
KJs = 2
QTs = 3

The thing is, though, on the flop TAG may have planned to checkraise just you. So maybe he has KQ for top pair and a gutshot on the flop and trips on the turn (KQ is 8 combos on the turn). And J9s (3 combos) is another hand to consider.

If, on the other hand, the TAG limps KJo UTG, then that adds to our problems.

I'd probably raise the turn, but your line seems okay to me.

On the flop, I would cap, but this would be partly in the hopes of getting a free card. Despite our flush draw, gutshot, and overcard, the action indicates our equity might not be quite what it appears. (To answer your question, though, yes, a set is what we're mostly worried about.) Still, I'm thinking we should have an equity edge, on average.

lighterjobs · #4 12-20-2005, 05:51 AM

i would cap the flop and raise the turn.

if he three bets the turn i think a call down is in order.

the only hands that i think utg could have are TQ or KJ. i don't know of any other hands a tag would limp with and play here that could beat you.

xenthebrain · #5 12-20-2005, 06:48 AM

I would cap the flop for value, you have 12 clean out to the nuts and once in a while an ace will be enough, too.

With the nutflush I would raise the turn once.
A TAG has a wider flop 3-betting range than the average player so the chances are good that he doesn't have the FH.
If he 3bets, call down.

If you actually raised the flop it could happen that he does have a K and 3bets you on the turn because you disguised your hand that he puts you maybe on a worse K (he might like his kicker) so you would win this bet off him too.

Nick Royale · #6 12-20-2005, 07:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, I would cap, but this would be partly in the hopes of getting a free card. Despite our flush draw, gutshot, and overcard, the action indicates our equity might not be quite what it appears. (To answer your question, though, yes, a set is what we're mostly worried about.) Still, I'm thinking we should have an equity edge, on average.

[/ QUOTE ]
Basically we're having an edge unless we're up against QT/AT and a set at the same time. Easy cap.

#7 12-20-2005, 08:18 AM

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I would cap the flop for value, you have 11 clean out to the nuts

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xenthebrain · #8 12-20-2005, 09:52 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
I would cap the flop for value, you have 11 clean out to the nuts

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9 clubs + 3 non-club Queens = 12 outs to the nuts.

#9 12-20-2005, 10:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would cap the flop for value, you have 11 clean out to the nuts

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9 clubs + 3 non-club Queens = 12 outs to the nuts.

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The king of clubs is not the nuts.

jskills · #10 12-20-2005, 12:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO (poster) calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (11.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.16 BB

UTG is a TAG that might be a tpt'er. This is his 4th hand on the table, so I have no reads as to what he thinks this table might be like yet.

Am I ahead of enough of a TAG's c/3-betting range here to raise behind on the turn? I think I should've raised and called down the rest of the way. And yes, I know I missed the cap on the flop (this is a cap on the flop if this guy has anything but a set right? two pair?)

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I like capping the flop and I don't see why you didn't raise the turn.