why am i always in these spots?

All hope is gone.

[Jstyal]

Didn't have time to read all responses, just read the board. Bet the flop, too mnay draws out there AND if given the chance, you need to cap, which you did, phew, good. Checking on this flop is not too smart given your late position. Raise the turn. Only 7T of the draws has gotten there. Call the river. If they're behind and still betting, you want this. If you're beaten, you dont want to continue raising.

[Jstyal]

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so i say fold but i hate ed miller in these situations.

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What does Ed Miller have to do with 6-max and this topic? You cannot possibly fold this river in a 6-max 3/6 internet game.

[27offsooot]

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so i say fold but i hate ed miller in these situations.

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What does Ed Miller have to do with 6-max and this topic? You cannot possibly fold this river in a 6-max 3/6 internet game.

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Ed Miller said it's a huge mistake to fold in big pots (SSH, although he said it for one bet really). It's not really though, i was kind of being sarcastic. But i don't feel like elaborating. If u say folding is never correct, then u won't understand what else i have to say.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
I like leading this flop. Button may have 3-bet, but if he has AQ, AJ, AT, QJs 77, 88, TT, JJ, QQ, he may decide to check the flop. This would be horrendous. Not all of those hands are entirely likely, but they are all possible. Furthermore, if we bet, and he has a hand that would have bet the flop, he usually will raise us. This doesn't really protect our hand too much, as people will draws will still be getting great odds on their draws. But, a benefit is that we can then 3-bet very often, and force people to pay. You got lucky here, and button 3-bet, allowing your cap, but this does not happen all that often.

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You make good points. I think it's close. I guess i think that I would bet almost any hand i three bet with on this flop in this size pot with these opponents. Many people would not though. I think pocket pairs almost always bet. Any chance of folding out hands drawing live in this pot with A high hands is a good thing. Perhaps hands like QJ i might check with, but i don't think they comprise much of villains range unless he's a maniac, which means he will bet anyway. Again, this is how i would play the flop checked to me. Smaller pot or really ugly flop, of course i'm not betting, but here i do.

I think it's close and depends on reads though.

[damaniac]

Right. That advice applies as good general advice to people who haven't thought about it before, and to people who want to be too cute with river folds, making "amazing" reads. But you still look at the action and the players, and if you aren't getting appropriate odds compared to that, you fold. Ed Miller never said "Just throw out everything you learned about hand reading and looking at the board and call just because the pot is big".

I think Ed including a revision with a Bobbyi-like analysis of the river decision might clear up some confusion.

[Jstyal]

[ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller said it's a huge mistake to fold in big pots (SSH, although he said it for one bet really). It's not really though, i was kind of being sarcastic. But i don't feel like elaborating. If u say folding is never correct, then u won't understand what else i have to say.

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I never said folding here is 'always' incorrect; however, given that this is a low-limit 6-max internet game, folding here would be ruinous and boderline 'always' incorrect.

[fyodor]

SB has K8
BB has KQ
Button has AK
Your hand is good.

Now wake up and smell the coffee. That was a dream.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
SB has K8
BB has KQ
Button has AK
Your hand is good.

Now wake up and smell the coffee. That was a dream.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, because players that call and don't raise the flop with TP2ndK, then cold call three on the turn and raise the river because they hit two pair.

Edit - i just realized u meant that u have to fold. My bad, but i'll leave this post up b/c i think it's important.

[Jstyal]

If they knew how to play poker consistent with optimal strategy then they wouldn't do what they do and they would cease to be donks and would actually be winners in this game, right?