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  #11  
Old 11-18-2005, 03:44 AM
bobbyi bobbyi is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

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Is the 41 number the number of hands you have on him, or his went to showdown?

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Wtsd. I have a lot of hands on him.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2005, 03:48 AM
EvanJC EvanJC is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

i'd like to see an explanation of the op's preflop play from the op. i don't like it but i don't know much
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2005, 03:48 AM
Danenania Danenania is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

I would bet turn then check/fold river UI most likely. I don't think you will be inducing any bluffs from this fellow.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2005, 04:28 AM
bobbyi bobbyi is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

[ QUOTE ]
i'd like to see an explanation of the op's preflop play from the op. i don't like it but i don't know much

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I'm really not that crazy about it. My hand isn't really even a favorite here against his range hot and cold and I'm out of position with a hand that isn't going to play out very well postflop given the opponent since he isn't folding things I want folding that often and he is often going to play aggressively when I am left with just a small pair which puts me in a bad spot. I don't see how the fact that it is four-handed changes any of these things compared to it being fuller as Catt says (I don't play much fuller anyway if I can avoid it, so I'm not the expert there). I would normally fold this. But I'm experimenting with different things and decided to try something different and also I want to play back at the guy at least some just to show him that I'm not going to be pushed around.
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2005, 04:44 AM
EvanJC EvanJC is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

fair enough. raising for the sake of raising is just fine in my opinion
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2005, 10:16 AM
kamelion44 kamelion44 is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

I think I keep firing on the turn, fold to a raise. Doesn't it look like he could be calling on a lone spade draw? He didn't cap it on you, in position, so with those stats, there's a decent chance we've still got the best hand, but maybe I'm just a spewer. But HU battle, where we've swelled the pot OOP, I always like getting to SD, so I'd probably call river after dogging turn. Too likely he's bluffing missed spade there.
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2005, 02:23 PM
Catt Catt is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

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I don't see how the fact that it is four-handed changes any of these things compared to it being fuller as Catt says (I don't play much fuller anyway if I can avoid it, so I'm not the expert there).

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It doesn't go directly to the points you raised (position, the fact that he may play aggressively) -- it really goes to his opening range. I presume his opening range is quite a bit wider 4-handed than 6-handed when he is first to ask. The poster I was responding to referenced his raising UTG and I guessed that he didn't notice that UTG in this case was really first to act among 4 players. That's all.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2005, 02:31 PM
brazilio brazilio is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd like to see an explanation of the op's preflop play from the op. i don't like it but i don't know much

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm really not that crazy about it. My hand isn't really even a favorite here against his range hot and cold and I'm out of position with a hand that isn't going to play out very well postflop given the opponent since he isn't folding things I want folding that often and he is often going to play aggressively when I am left with just a small pair which puts me in a bad spot. I don't see how the fact that it is four-handed changes any of these things compared to it being fuller as Catt says (I don't play much fuller anyway if I can avoid it, so I'm not the expert there). I would normally fold this. But I'm experimenting with different things and decided to try something different and also I want to play back at the guy at least some just to show him that I'm not going to be pushed around.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've actually seen a significant number of 2+2-type players making this play with all the pockets including 22. It seems so counterproductive to me with a hand that's at best 50/50, but I was wondering if others were doing this and I was going to make a post about it. This was a full 6-max table too, although I don't have much of a problem with it 4-way, or certainly much less of a problem.
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2005, 02:32 PM
CIncyHR CIncyHR is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

I think this is an OK line if you knoe this guy is a maniac, but I think against most players youre behind a pretty significant poriton of the time. Im not sure I like the preflop 3 bet out of position at all. Maybe Im wrong though.
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2005, 03:26 PM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
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Default Re: One man gathers what another man spills

I don't care for this preflop play. It looks to me like a crapshoot, and I don't care for being OOP with it.

With two Broadways and all one suit, this is not the kind of flop you were hoping for. At least you have that suit and it might be enough if utg has no spade. Thats a little thin to hang your hat on though.

Check/folding this flop might not be a bad idea. I'd guess JJ, QQ, or KK would be inclined to take this to showdown, as well as any ten or ace. That covers a lot of utg's raising hands.

However, if you want to continue, betting out seems like a logical continuation. I think you could fold to a raise.

Since you got to the turn, I think bet/folding would be much better than check/calling. I don't think you'll get raised by anything that doesn't include a spade, and if utg has a spade it will be better than yours anyway. There is always a chance of making utg fold when you bet. Check/calling eliminated some of your chances and left you with little more than hoping for a spade to come. If utg is aggressive enough to semibluff raise a Turn HU with only a flush draw, this is not the kind of guy I'd want to be challenging with 55 OOP from the get go anyway.

On the river, assuming you bet and just got called on the turn, you might score with a bet. You have a shot at folding anything besides an ace. You could fold to a raise.

Check/calling the River might be OK too if you had bet/called the turn. Villian would unlikely bluff without an ace or second pair as he would likely have you on at least a ten or a weak ace.
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