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  #11  
Old 11-04-2005, 11:42 PM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand


But would a Q minbet TP behind check-check from the blinds w/ a flush on board?
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2005, 11:42 PM
lacky lacky is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

I'm thinkin raise the turn.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2005, 12:45 AM
kyro kyro is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

Why didn't you push the turn. I just want those chips that are in the middle of the pot.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2005, 02:01 AM
kevkev60614 kevkev60614 is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

[ QUOTE ]
Where's the converter at these days anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask and ye shall receive
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2005, 03:12 PM
Unarmed Unarmed is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

Alright here's what went through my head:

This guy's been betting pretty frequently so I'm fairly certain he's betting a FD on the flop last to act against two blinds who have shown zero interest in the pot. Also, he'd bet a ten there to protect his hand, and hed probably bet a nine. So I basically eliminate those hands on the flop. I catch my queen on the turn, but I'm awfully weak and its a nice scare card that any semi-aggro player will bet for me anyway so I check it through. This gives me a wider range of betting options and allows me to see how SB will react to his probable bet. Most of the time he'll be folding after checking two streets but any information is good information.

On the turn villain bets 150 into a 450 pot last to act indicating he has basically nothing. He *may* have a jack here and picked up an OESD on the turn, but this bet makes no sense there sither as he *should* just take a free card or bet something closer to pot. Now, he could be a shitty player with a J, and I take this into account when determining my course of action, but normally this is just going to be a complete bluff, and a weak one at that. He *could* have KJ, and that is pretty much the only legit hand I could put him on as his cheesy turn bet would be consistent. However, given he's aggro his range is waaaaaaaaay to big to worry about him having turned the straight.

Of course, a Q is possible, but I'm not too worried about that given the small bet on the co-ordinated board. Also, if he has the Q I definitely want to check/call this hand down, as any raise will pot stick me and I want to lose the minmium.

River pairs the T, which is a lovely card for me as the only way this guy has a ten is if he has quads after checking behind on the co-ordinated flop. Checking the river is obvious for reasons already mentioned and its a pretty easy call of his bet because:

- He bet 600 into 750 on the river. If he had the straight I'd expect to see something a bit closer to half pot. The reason for this is how I look through his eyes. He's seen the BB check the flop through and check/call a weak bet on the Q turn. Most BB's would either bet or C/R the turn with a Q given all the draws out there.

- The last part of that sentence is the reason you must call the river, and is basically the most important part of the hand. Villain sees me call a weak turn bet on an ugly board, and the river completes the flush and pairs the T. Now, looking at the river in isolation, Villain goes, ok, this guy has like a nine or something, and there's no way he can call a big bet on this ugly river. Plus, if he had any sort of hand capable of calling a big bet on the river, he'd raise the turn, so I'm going to take this pot from him.

Honestly, you don't need to do this much thinking. If you call the turn you MUST call the river because you've induced his bluff. It's really that simple. I'm posting all of this because I've noticed that I play a little too much on instinct, relaying on the fact that I've widened out villain's betting range sufficiently enough though my line that I am forced to make a call. I'm trying to deepen my thought process and actually put players' on hands instead of just relying on feel, although instinct will still play a large part in my game. If anyone wants to do the same I'd suggest verbalizing your thought process as the hand plays out. I'm actually mumbling to myself as I play - "what does that bet mean?", "what is he representing?", "what am I representing". It's been fun and quite helpful in insuring I pick out those situations that aren't cut and dried enough to rely on my experience and instinct alone.

Anyway, any comments on my thought process there? Oh and PS, if anyone was worried about a Q on the turn those fears should pretty much evaporate when he bets pottish on a river that could have easily made me trips. It's just not something you should worry about regardless of the river given my description of the villain and the turn action. Besides, most Q's would have been raised preflop by this guy anyway. <- that's what playing HU does to you BTW, you start to ignore any PF reads. Gotta watch that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Other considerations:

- He's biggish stack so his range will be wider in bluff hands.
- If I fold this riv I have like 900 left 5-handed. If I call and win I take a commanding position in the SNG.

etc, etc
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2005, 03:19 PM
Unarmed Unarmed is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinkin raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against anything but a J raising the turn allows villain to play perfectly and removes any bluff equity I have on the river. I'm not too worried about protecting my hand with anything else with one card to come as he's raising any ace or king preflop. Do you strongly put him on a J here lacky? (or two hearts?) I was thinking J either makes a real bet or just takes his free card. Thoughts?
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2005, 03:37 PM
WebGuySteve WebGuySteve is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

[ QUOTE ]
Most BB's would either bet or C/R the turn with a Q given all the draws out there.

- The last part of that sentence is the reason you must call the river, and is basically the most important part of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also feel that that part of the sentence is why I raise that with air almost 100% of the time. Even a min raise with a large lead on a safe river isn't a horrible play because if he does in fact have a straight, he's gonna push right there and you can stop your bluff without losing your stack.
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2005, 03:45 PM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

your analysis makes me want to play SNGs again.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2005, 07:50 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

[ QUOTE ]
I catch my queen on the turn, but I'm awfully weak and its a nice scare card that any semi-aggro player will bet for me anyway so I check it through.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, this sentence just looks like any old line, but is far more profound.

Why did our villain check the flop after being checked to?
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2005, 11:21 AM
J-Lo J-Lo is offline
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Default Re: $109s - Q5o Hand

he didn't catch any part of the board. preserving chips
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