Stud8b Wheel - text book play?

[Beavis68]

Would like to know if I over played it anywhere. Table had been pretty tight with sporadic large pots.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

Hero: $19.85
Seat 2: $10.50
Seat 3: $8.20
Seat 4: $23.80
Seat 5: $21.35
Seat 6: $23.75
Seat 7: $37.60
Seat 8: $20

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (6.80 SB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___calls

5th Street - (12.40 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls

6th Street - (18.40 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

River - (21.40 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: (23.40 BB)

[timprov]

If they're paying attention at all I prefer a call on fifth. Let them draw dead thinking you paired.

This is Razz thinking, though. I'm not sure how much you need to protect your high hand.

[bigredlemon]

I think a call on 5th is in order since no one with a draw to a better hand is folding whereas everyone drawing dead is going to call. If you flat call 5th, then you can raise or c/r 6th where the double bet actually has a chance of folding the draws. It also extracts the maximum from people with bad lows or drawing near-dead on 5th.

But given how they cold called so much on 5th, I don't mind the raise if you think almsot all of them will call. Note that when you raise 5th, everyone is going to put you on at least either a strong low with a straight draw or aces up, or at worst 4 wheel + aces. All the action is going to dry up very quickly.

[Aaron W.]

Since you have the low locked up and nobody has a reasonable high draw against you, I don't see any reason to raise on 5th. You might even get seat 4 to peel another one and get himself trapped with a losing low hand.

The guy keeps betting into you, so he must have two pair/trips and probably won't be able to keep from betting again on 6th, so you're almost certainly going to be able to get a raise in there.

[bholdr]

Wheels pretty much play themselves, and arguments can be made in favor of playing really fast or going for lots of overcalls. Your play was fine, IMO, but...

two little things:

The re-raise on fourth was not so great, imo- you got lucky that they all called. i'd tend to flat call, bet out again on fifth, hope to get raised again, then re-raise (getting the others for big bets).

I like the raise on fifth. because everyone called on fourth, you have two things going for you that make that a good play: the pot is big enough that you probably want to knock out high draws to secure the whole pot, but if they call (and they might well do that, given fourth st), that's good too- they are getting terrible odds with pretty thin draws, and nobody else has a wheel draw to split the low end.

[Wu36]

[ QUOTE ]

The re-raise on fourth was not so great, imo- you got lucky that they all called. i'd tend to flat call, bet out again on fifth, hope to get raised again, then re-raise (getting the others for big bets).


[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line.

[Andy B]

My initial response was going to be along the lines of, "no, this isn't textbook, because textbooks don't bother with stuff like this. Of course you pound the pot with this one." Since there has been some discussion, however, I won't say that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I like how you played this hand. This is $.50/1.00. I don't really see the need to keep people in. Everyone called three bets on fourth street. It seems entirely reasonable to hope that they will call two cold on fifth. Flat-calling and going for over-calls is fine too, but I prefer a raise. When you lose players as you did, you improve your chances of winning the high side (if this were high-only, I wouldn't be all that crazy about a wheel in a six-way pot--would you?). If you get a bunch of callers, you stand to win half of a very large pot. You can't know if they'll call two bets unless you give them a chance to.

I think you've gotten results-oriented responses. If three people had called along on fifth, everyone would have liked the raise.