Flat Calling Raises with Kings Preflop

[kagame]

if you go set over set or set v tp you dont need to have built a big pot preflop to win a monster, and this is alot easier if they cant put you on a big pair

[Ulysses]

sometimes i feel like a nut, sometimes i don't.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
if you go set over set or set v tp you dont need to have built a big pot preflop to win a monster, and this is alot easier if they cant put you on a big pair

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah because the odds are really good that you'll both flop a set.
and i don't know who you're playing with whose willing to play for >200BB with just top pair or overpair.

[Rick Nebiolo]

I've enjoyed lurking this thread but tonight a hand came up in what I think is your second favorite LA casino where an opponent cold called a raise with KK. Here's what happended.

I make a standard open raise UTG+1 with AQ suited. Weak player UTG+1 calls with what turns out to be KK. About seventeen other players call. Flop comes all middle connected cards with two of one suit. I check and later fold to substantial action. Weak player bets of all of her stacks off post flop when she was virtually drawing dead.

Anyway, cold calling with KK is a decent change up but you need to play decently post flop. You do, donk on my left didn't [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[Double Down]

I reraise with kk preflop for a couple reasons.

1. I like to know where I'm at and want to get it all in there preflop. I have laid down kings a few times preflop when I KNEW that the guy had aces, and I could not have done this unless I reopened the action preflop. Let's say you call and the flop comes with jack or queen high. You have no idea if you're way ahead or behind. Let's say the flop comes with an ace. If you are ahead (and he has jacks, queens, etc.) then it will be hard to get a lot more money in there. And that's if he doesn't bet you off of it first.
If you isolate, it's a lot easier to call a large bet on a rag flop if it's just you and him, and not if there are 4 or 5 players. Overall, there are too many sticky situations that you can get into on the flop with kings and imo, the time to get money in with kings is preflop.

2. Someone else touched upon this. If there is no strength shown preflop but rather after the flop, then you probably have a couple of hands going up against each other that are at least 2 pair. If you just call your kings and then start betting big after the flop, your opponents will probably be worried about you having 2 pair. This is why I also raise good hands in the blinds, because if I didn't and my action is big on the flop then people have me pegged as flopping 2 pair or better, and if they won't pay me off with a worse hand than a big pocket pair, then they definitely won't want to get into it with me if they think that I have better than that.

It's okay to let your strength be known by raising because
a)You will protect your hand
b)You are getting value for it
c)The way your opponents react to it will define THEIR hands.

And even if you reraise, there will be enough mediocre players hanging on to AQ, AJ, KQ, QQ, and other pocket pairs to make it worth it.

[coltrane]

rbk,

I agree with most of what you're saying, disagree with some - I think we're mostly eye to eye here.....the main point I'm making is that if I'm playing really deep and especially if against good players, whatever it is that I do preflop I like to do with MANY hands.....to me there's no greater detriment than giving away my hand on an early street when there's a lot of money left to bet.....having said that, since I generally don't like to build big preflop pots out of position with A LOT of hands, I often don't do it with aces either.....of course, sometimes I might (like you said) - i.e. if I think my opponent also has a big pair or if I can bet 15-20% of my opponent's stack or I've been speeding around and I think my opponent might go off because he thinks I'm getting fresh, etc. etc. etc. ......

[Kirkrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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"I don't reraise preflop very often either - especially when I'm out of position..."

Hmm... I take the opposite approach and tend to re-raise harder when I'm OOP since I know that my options will be limited post flop.



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i think coltrane means when the money is real deep, like maybe 250+BB, where if you raise pf, yoiu prob arent getting much more than 10-12bb's in , and your hand is sometimes very transparent to other players, and they have the odds to bust you.

with 50-150bb's, im almost always reraisin g OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, but with stacks that deep my raising hand range pre-flop is FAR greater than AA/KK... basically it's down to 2,5s. My opponents know this, and know that I know they know this, so nothing is transparent. But that's a little outside the scope of OP's question.

Kirk

[DcifrThs]

why would you always want to do anything?

Barron

[Dr. Strangelove]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you always want to do anything?

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

because jessica alba is just that hot

[lapoker17]

Interesting Development on the flat calling with Kings front.

Commerce 10/20 on Friday.

I ($3000) open for $100 in LMP w 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Rock ($2200) calls in CO. (For those who play this game, he's the older Italian gentleman with a prosthetic arm, who plays pretty tight, but also seems to have really bad timing when he rarely tries to make a move, or mix it up). Anyway.

Heads up. Flop comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet $160. He calls.

Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet $370. He moves in, I call.

He has KK. I would like to reiterate that I think flat calling PF w Kings is great.