109: early AK hand

[Deuce2High]

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As far as Scuba's question about the turn, how could you not like his turn play? Obviously he can't fold, so you are suggesting a raise. Why raise him off nothing when he may be willing to bluff at the river, and why let him check-raise you with a real hand or draw when you may have been able to showdown for less on the river?

Irieguy

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Because checking behind/calling on all streets to get a cheap showdown and/or induce a bluff is the wrong way to extract value in a SnG... especially with AK.

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Although I do completely agree everything else you said. I just think that after the flop the game is to try to get it all in as fast as you can without scaring him away too often when hes really weak.

I like raising on the turn because many times the opponent has already ruled out the possibility of you having an ace... the check-check on the flop makes it seem like both of you are wary of the Ace-high flop.

Then you get played back at by weak aces, KK, etc.

And if you don't raise the turn, then I feel that there is no way you can fold to any river card. There can be no second-guessing, because you asked for the push.

I play it both ways, and I think both lines are fine--- as long as you are committed to calling a river push if you chose to flat call the turn.

[patrick dicaprio]

easy call in most games. the fact is i think the better players are likely betting this flop with a draw, he underraised the preflop bet and then pushes when he makes a flush hoping you will call when he should bet less? i am calling here and expect to see a pair like TT of JJ or, ugh, AQ.

the potential problem though is that he could interpret your check and then flat call as having a draw (of course you wouldnt call for 150 with just a draw getting just over 2-1 with one card to come would you?). so if this is the case then you are dead.

i would call, grit my teeth and hope i am not shown AQ.

Pat

[patrick dicaprio]

on the contrary i think this is a good way to get a huge amount of chips in on the river as a bluff. too often you will see players make deeperation plays or wacky plays on teh river in situations like this just because a third heart comes. i am much more worried about AQ than i am about the flush. A PROVISO is that i play at the 30 level and lower so perhaps the 100 is different.

Pat

Repop flop to 450.

most likely hand villan has is KK, followed my QQ.
AA is in their somewhere too but much less likely.

[mosdef]

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to add to this, the primary reason for betting that flop is to protect against the flush draw

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There is almost zero reason to be concerned about the flush draw here.

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which is exactly what i said in the sentence IMMEDIATELY following this extract. did you read the first line of my post, stop, and then respond?

[mosdef]

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he COULD have QQ, but really why would he push with a hand that strong with almost no hope of being called by anything but the flush? it just doesn't make sense.

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Does this mean that there is almost no chance you'll call here with AK?

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no, as stated in my post above i call expecting to see KK or JJ, but cringing because i may occasionally see something that beats me which is irritating.

[Scuba Chuck]

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With that in mind, I think a case could be made that our hero is only beating KK, AJ. Splitting with another AK, and losing to AA, QQ, AQ. Is my hand range too narrow? If not, maybe this is a good fold???


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Ok, the whole "preflop range" discussion going on in this thread is totally ridiculous. Just because somebody min-reraises you from the BB doesn't mean they have aces or kings.

In fact, almost anytime an opponent has a hand that strong and knows that they will be heads-up... they try to get as many chips as possible into the pot (as many as they think you will call.) So, simply in terms of pattern recognition I'd say this player has two goofy cards far more often than a premium hand. Weak aces are definitely in the running, too.

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Just to be straight. I think the river is a call. But I threw out this preflop hand range stuff for arguments sake.

One of my critical errors in this crazy game is I probably over-analyze. The preflop reraise, and subsequent flop check is so strange to me. What makes this hand even more unusual is the river bet. Snapping bluffs, or poor bets is not my expertise.

Anyway, to my question. Is it fair to me to assume that a strange reraise bet like this, that's not steep enough to assume AA or KK means villain is a donkey? Do any of you guys make raises like this?

Furthermore, speaking of strange bets, here's another strange one that is so difficult to read. I think this hand is slightly marginal, and not as dominant as I think this could be.

Bleh, this game is fun.