109: early AK hand

[mike28]

Can someone please explain to me why checking behind on the flop is good?

[adanthar]

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This happens sometimes, ya know? You have position, and a good hand but you want to control the size of the pot and play for value.

The flop is fine, the turn looks good... and then he pushes. Crap.

But the fact that the river is a heart really helps you. He either hates the heart or hopes you hate it and is trying to use brute force to win a hand that he played like a complete donk.

Call him.

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I agree, with the proviso that you lose to exactly AQ or QQ (okay, occasionally aces, I guess) a fair bit but still less than you double up off two cards.

[wuwei]

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Can someone please explain to me why checking behind on the flop is good?

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Without a read, what hands would you expect to see from someone who min reraises preflop out of position? I expect to see big pairs like AA, KK, and QQ pretty often. Obviously you'll also run into some other stuff like AK, or a wider range if he's a total donkey.

Against that range, the best way I see to extract value is to check behind on the flop and see what happens on the turn. If he bets, I can call or raise. If he checks, I can bet. Having position helps, and the fact that when I'm ahead I'm usually way ahead is also nice. I don't mind offering a free card to 2 or 3 outers.

[mosdef]

to add to this, the primary reason for betting that flop is to protect against the flush draw. but you don't have to do that here because of the reraise preflop, which is totally inconsistent with any possible two heart that the might have.

my mantra on AK is as follows: AK can only make you money by extracting value from weaker aces/kings or by inducing a bluff from a smaller pair when you hit. betting this flop reduces the effectiveness of both of those lines since you are advertising a strong A, which will slow down a weaker ace and will possibly get a QQ or KK to fold.

[Deuce2High]

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I don't mind offering a free card to 2 or 3 outers.

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I guess it's just a general difference of opinion that I have with a lot of people who post here. In early game SnGs like this I generally like to play it fast and hard, and I almost never give free cards. Yeah I will occasionally change up my playstyle, but for the most part I don't see a reason to ever slowplay almost any hand in a SnG this early. With hands like this, play it hard and fast on the flop. Sometimes retards are willing to play back at you with a worse hand whether you let them try to catch up or not.

[Deuce2High]

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to add to this, the primary reason for betting that flop is to protect against the flush draw

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There is almost zero reason to be concerned about the flush draw here.

[sofere]

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he COULD have QQ, but really why would he push with a hand that strong with almost no hope of being called by anything but the flush? it just doesn't make sense.

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Does this mean that there is almost no chance you'll call here with AK?

[mike28]

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Can someone please explain to me why checking behind on the flop is good?

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Without a read, what hands would you expect to see from someone who min reraises preflop out of position? I expect to see big pairs like AA, KK, and QQ pretty often. Obviously you'll also run into some other stuff like AK, or a wider range if he's a total donkey.

Against that range, the best way I see to extract value is to check behind on the flop and see what happens on the turn. If he bets, I can call or raise. If he checks, I can bet. Having position helps, and the fact that when I'm ahead I'm usually way ahead is also nice. I don't mind offering a free card to 2 or 3 outers.

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What I had in mind. Thanks.

[Scuba Chuck]

I was chatting with wuwei via IM when this hand occurred. I don't think you mentioned the 3 hearts tho.

The one thing about this hand I didn't like, is the way our hero played the turn. There hasn't been much discussion on the turn play. Irieguy has touched on it a little here. What are the benefits of keeping the pot small here, now on the turn?

Also, regarding the preflop read. I think it helps a lot to think about the preflop reraise, and the subsequent flop check to get a sense for what hand range you think can play it this way. Our villain made a raise that wanted to be called. What hand ranges (normally) would you put villain on for that kind of move?

With that in mind, I think a case could be made that our hero is only beating KK, AJ. Splitting with another AK, and losing to AA, QQ, AQ. Is my hand range too narrow? If not, maybe this is a good fold???

[Irieguy]

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With that in mind, I think a case could be made that our hero is only beating KK, AJ. Splitting with another AK, and losing to AA, QQ, AQ. Is my hand range too narrow? If not, maybe this is a good fold???

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Ok, the whole "preflop range" discussion going on in this thread is totally ridiculous. Just because somebody min-reraises you from the BB doesn't mean they have aces or kings.

In fact, almost anytime an opponent has a hand that strong and knows that they will be heads-up... they try to get as many chips as possible into the pot (as many as they think you will call.) So, simply in terms of pattern recognition I'd say this player has two goofy cards far more often than a premium hand. Weak aces are definitely in the running, too.

Sure, he has a set or AQ sometimes... but it's a pretty healthy majority of the time that he'll turn over an under pair or weak ace.

As far as Scuba's question about the turn, how could you not like his turn play? Obviously he can't fold, so you are suggesting a raise. Why raise him off nothing when he may be willing to bluff at the river, and why let him check-raise you with a real hand or draw when you may have been able to showdown for less on the river?

Irieguy