Suggesting that someone is gay???

[ QUOTE ]
So, why would anyone be upset about being called gay?


[/ QUOTE ]

because it's not true? I don't think a gay person would be upset about being called gay

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah, your reply is too smart by half. Either that or you're deceptively trying to subtely shift the argument. Did anyone mention prominent people in politics? I was talking about homophobes in general. Surely you're not suggesting that there aren't people that think homosexuality is wrong and would rather two gay people not be together, in marriage or not in marriage. Surely you're not suggesting that. That would be lunacy. Oh, and while I don't have any quotes on hand, I'd bet my life for ten dollars from you that there are political figures that are completely against anything homosexual. OH YEAH I JUST REMEMBERED ONE. Alan Keyes. His daughter is a lesbian. He disowned her and kicked her out of the house. She was forced to live with a friend, penniless. I did this without even having to go to the internet to research it. I'm sure if I did I could come up with more. Thank you and goodnight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, there are people who believe that homosexuality is wrong, but how are they going to "keep people apart.?" I need to know. If Alan Keyes kicks his daughter out of his house, that is very unfortunate. However, adults can choose to do whatever they want. If his daughter prefers to live "penniless" (maybe she could get a job?) with her lover instead of with her parents, then that is her choice, and I respect it.

You said you were just referring to "homophobes in general." What power do they have to keep people apart? Our society is far more tolerant than ever of homosexuality. Alan Keyes doesn't represent a large number of people (didn't he lose the Senate race by about 50 points?)

[andyfox]

Many people don't consider homosexuality as normal or common. They view is as abnormal, uncommon, and disgusting.

There are two possible meanings of the word "gay" when calling someone gay. One, used quite often on 2+2, describes something stupid or unfortunate. This definition originates from homophobia. It's used among many teenage males in order to buff up their "masculinity," implying that homosexuality itself is both stupid and unfortunate. It's used an an insult.

The other means homosexual. Since many people still view homosexuality as abnormal and evil, many people refer to others' homosexuality in an attempt to call up that revulsion. An example would be John Kerry's talking about Dick Cheney's daughter during the presidential debate. Cheney was justifiably upset at the reference.

Anyway, unless I want to talk about it, what business is it of anybody else whether I'm hetero- or homosexual?

GOOD LORD DID YOU EVEN READ MY ORIGINAL POST? I'll quote the proper area so you don't have to comb through all the difficult and esoteric language.

[ QUOTE ]
Why would someone want to keep apart two people that love each other?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would someone WANT. WANT WANT WANT. I never say anyone, politician or homophobe, was actually keeping two people that love each other apart. There ARE people that WANT to keep homosexuals that love each other apart. The question is WHY they would WANT to. Not why are they keeping them apart.

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, there are people who believe that homosexuality is wrong, but how are they going to "keep people apart.?" I need to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, I think it's kind of weird that you 'need' to know. Like for a paper? Secondly, the answer to your question, up until Lawrence vs. Texas last year, anti-sodomy laws were consitutional. So for many, many, many years homosexuals weren't allowed to show physical love AND weren't allowed to get married. Seriously, if you and your girlfriend were not allowed to ever have sex AND couldn't get married, wouldn't you take that as people trying to keep you from being with each other. Oh yeah, Bush has two new appointees to the Supreme Court. It's not unlikely that Lawrence vs. Texas could get reversed. Cases get reversed as the makeup of the court changes. Proof? Lawrence vs. Texas reversed the 1986 Bowers vs. Hardwick decision upholding anti-sodomy laws.

Oh yeah, the reason why she was penniless is that she was living off her parents, as most children tend to do. If your parents kicked you out of the house and just happened to not have a job at the time, you would be penniless as well.

And you said prominent politicians. Off the top of my head I came up with someone that ran for both president as well as senator. If you wish to requalify your statement of "find me one prominent politician" to "find me one prominent politician that represents a large number of people" then fine. I know they exist. Quit subtely changing points. Oh ya, Keyes most definitely has a large number of followers. I haven't checked, but I'm once again willing to bet my life for ten dollars from you that we can find someone more popular than Keyes that would rather keep homosexuals from being with each other. I'm pretty sure all I have to do is read off a list of prominent conservatives. I think Ann Coulter fits the description. She's pretty anti-gay and wants homosexuals not to be together. Strike 2 for you. Christ all mighty I'm going to town on you.

[andyfox]

. . . in another thread you posted this, when cautioned by someone about calling me a Communist:

"2+ 2 is exempt from libel laws; unless hd sues fer bib bux; that's the only exception... i am not scared to call a spade a spade..git it"

I think I git it, but I'm not sure. What do you mean by calling a spade a spade?

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
So for many, many, many years homosexuals weren't allowed to show physical love"

[/ QUOTE ]

What? That is among the dumbest things ever said. Homosexuals weren't allowed to show physical love? Really? Sure, some states has these anti-sodomy laws, but they were thankfully almost never enforced. If that is the best you can do, I am owning you, son.




[ QUOTE ]
Why would someone WANT. WANT WANT WANT

[/ QUOTE ]

Because maybe that is their belief? I don't care what two consenting adults do, but there are people with certain religious beliefs who have objections. What ever happened to tolerance? I hear people preach tolerance, yet they rarely practice it. As Ted Koppel said once referring to some gays, "tolerance is a one-way street." If people should tolerant gays (as they should), then maybe you and others should tolerate peoples beliefs that you disagree with. Tolerance needs to be a two-way street. Or do you disagree?



[ QUOTE ]
but I'm once again willing to bet my life for ten dollars from you that we can find someone more popular than Keyes that would rather keep homosexuals from being with each other. I'm pretty sure all I have to do is read off a list of prominent conservatives. I think Ann Coulter fits the description. She's pretty anti-gay and wants homosexuals not to be together. Strike 2 for you. Christ all mighty I'm going to town on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, you are still going to town on me. I asked you to name some prominent people and you came up with a Senate candidate who lost by one of the worst landslides in recent memory, and a syndicated columnist who is hated by many. You are right, that sure represents a good chunk of America.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, the reason why she was penniless is that she was living off her parents, as most children tend to do. If your parents kicked you out of the house and just happened to not have a job at the time, you would be penniless as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Wasn't she like..20 years old? When I was that age, I was working 30 hours a week while going to college. Please explain to me why she cannot do something similar? I don't agree with the decision her parents made, but you are talking like she was 11 or something.

[ QUOTE ]
What? That is among the dumbest things ever said. Homosexuals weren't allowed to show physical love? Really? Sure, some states has these anti-sodomy laws, but they were thankfully almost never enforced. If that is the best you can do, I am owning you, son.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, almost never enforced. That's why the case was was in the Supreme Court just last year. And it wasn't the first time anti-sodomy laws had been before the SC. If you were a homosexual you'd feel offended and threatened by laws claiming the way you live is immoral and illegal. And yes, homosexuals were NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED TO MAKE LOVE TO EACH OTHER. And if caught by the authorities, they would go to jail. I'm not saying that many went to jail everyday, but it was illegal, and it was enforced.

[ QUOTE ]
Because maybe that is their belief? I don't care what two consenting adults do, but there are people with certain religious beliefs who have objections. What ever happened to tolerance? I hear people preach tolerance, yet they rarely practice it. As Ted Koppel said once referring to some gays, "tolerance is a one-way street." If people should tolerant gays (as they should), then maybe you and others should tolerate peoples beliefs that you disagree with. Tolerance needs to be a two-way street. Or do you disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey brotha, I'm all about tolerance and love. By asking why some people don't want gays together, I thought it would be obvious by implication I was asking why some people have the belief that that gays shouldn't be together. People that hate gays (or love them so much that they want them to denounce their vile, wicked lifestyle and be saved by Jesus Christ, which is what I've heard many Christians seriously claim) do so because they think homosexuals choose, immorally, to be gay. Now, I know many gays. My girlfriend is bisexual. Homophobe's beliefs about homosexuals are based on utter ignorance. And hatred as well as intolerance juts out from their ignorance. Now your claiming me to be intolerant of ignorance hatred, slyly pointing the subtle contradiction in my argument. The problem I have is that there are enough people (as well as enough powerful people) that hold ignorant beliefs to inject their beliefs into legislation. Imagine if all of a sudden Muslims came to power and outlawed reading the bible and practicing Christianity (because it conflicts with what's in their book). Could a Muslim seriously say to a dissenting Christian "hey you preach tolerance but you're being intolerant of our belief that you guys are full of [censored]." That's basically what you are saying is amounting to. This "you say you're tolerant but you're intolerant of intolerance" bullshit is just that: bullshit. I'm all about everyone loving each other. Unfortunately, we can't have that. One step toward that is questioning hatred. Yes, I admit it, I hate, and am intolerant of hatred, as well as ignorance.

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, you are still going to town on me. I asked you to name some prominent people and you came up with a Senate candidate who lost by one of the worst landslides in recent memory, and a syndicated columnist who is hated by many. You are right, that sure represents a good chunk of America.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is funny because if you read the "Ann Coulter is a bitch" thread you'd see people arguing why she's so popular. She's a best selling author and is all over the place. Many people do love her. Alan Keyes has followers. I came up with two prominent political figures, just off the top of my head. If you really want me to do research I will. Oh fine, I'll do a quick google search if you're not satisfied with these prominent figures (I wonder how they got so prominent, ya know, with no supporters). Wow, that was quick. Rick Santorum. I don't know why I didn't think of him first. He compared homosexuality to bigamy, incest as well as bestiality. Listen, I'm telling you that every "family-values" conservative is anti-gay (I'm sure there are plenty Dems as well). If you want to actually debate that I'd rather try to convince a wall that I'm pretty little girl. You said name one, I named three. I don't want to do any more research (I plugged in 'anti-gay politicians' into google and got over 312,000 hits). There are enough people to make life miserable for homosexuals, okay? You must live in San Francisco if you don't know that they're out there.

As for Keyes daughter. What I'm saying is they just up and kicked her out of the house. She had nothing. Of course she could get a job. But she was also in school. I think it was Harvard (maybe double check, I'm pretty sure though). So sure, she could work 30 hours, but her life was made that much more difficult because she's gay.

[Peter666]

"GAYS WERE NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED TO MAKE LOVE TO EACH OTHER. And if caught by the authorities, they would go to jail."

Bring back the good old days baby.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
No matter how tolerant you are, it's pretty repulsive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty tolerant and I'm not repulsed at all. It's not for me, wouldn't want to watch it, but I'm not repulsed at all thinking that two gay people have sex.

[joecash]

Because homos are not normal.