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#11
10-07-2005, 09:45 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you read him as a TAG, his play is transparent. He bet in to you with a pair or decent draw, bet the turn to not give a free card, and then gave up on the river. Raise the turn. At least bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting. I thought his betting out meant "I'm not scared of getting raised." But a TAG here would go for the check-raise instead, right? [/ QUOTE ] His bet there means absolutely nothing, your TAG read is incorrect. If the 3 helped him, he would check/raise. If it didn't help him, he would check/raise. Your read should have been "guy who plays tight and saw a few episodes of the WSOP." Raise and take away the money he was going to buy Mike Sexton's book with. [/ QUOTE ] This isn't true IMO; if the TAG has a TAG read on hero, it's perfectly valid to bet the turn here with a strong hand, with the intention of 3-betting. There's other conceivable scenarios where we can correctly SNG the turn here. I'd still raise the turn though because this is a free card block or other weirdness often enough to justify a raise IMO. 
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#12
10-07-2005, 09:48 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
Right, but what king of strong hand would the TAG only call hero's raise onthe flop?
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#13
10-07-2005, 09:54 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
Redd you are correct if bet/call flop bet/three bet turn is a line that is possible but the only hands that are probably strong enough to take this line would be a set and if this player was really a tag he is raising pre flop with any PP that would have possibly made a set on this board. And of course we know he checked the river through. This is just a super easy value raise on the turn.
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#14
10-07-2005, 09:55 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
[ QUOTE ]
Right, but what king of strong hand would the TAG only call hero's raise onthe flop? [/ QUOTE ] He'd be calling the flop with the explicit intention to bet-3bet the turn, because he wants to project that he's taking a stab. QJs comes to mind, and some weak-tight tags can limp 99 UTG.
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#15
10-07-2005, 09:58 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
[ QUOTE ]
And of course we know he checked the river through. [/ QUOTE ] This is results oriented. We didn't have this information on the turn. [ QUOTE ] This is just a super easy value raise on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I never said this wasn't a definite value-raise, but everyone seems to think it's impossible for the TAG to have a hand after donkbetting the turn. I'm saying that we could be drawing dead here, but this doesn't happen often enough not to value-raise.
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#16
10-07-2005, 10:02 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
Is that wise on such a dangerous board where he could split a straight, lose to a flush, or a full house? Is this the type of "forego exploiting a profitable opportunity on the flop if you can exploit a more profitable one on the turn" situation? I guess since his equity with a set or straight has increased greatly now that the turn is a rag.
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#17
10-07-2005, 10:08 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And of course we know he checked the river through. [/ QUOTE ] This is results oriented. We didn't have this information on the turn. [ QUOTE ] This is just a super easy value raise on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I never said this wasn't a definite value-raise, but everyone seems to think it's impossible for the TAG to have a hand after donkbetting the turn. I'm saying that we could be drawing dead here, but this doesn't happen often enough not to value-raise. [/ QUOTE ] Redd i agree with what your saying 99 or QJs are possible limping hands but if he is tag and three bet the turn this is about the easiest fold ever. It would never be correct to not raise this turn three handed and i know you agree with this. I was being cute with my check the river comment.
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#20
10-07-2005, 10:39 AM
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Re: Weak/tight to go into calldown mode?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I never said this wasn't a definite value-raise [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I know you never said that and i love the bet/call bet/3-bet line oop against thinking aggressive players. I got to use it last night with top set against aces with a fish stuck in the middle. One more question if the tag had 3-bet the turn are you calling down or folding? This of course assumes our tag read is correct over a decent sample size.
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