somewhat old KQs hand from my notes - Page 2

#11 09-13-2005, 01:05 AM

Not put in as many bets on the big streets when you're behind? This has a lot to do with what you think Buttons 3-bet range, and how much you think you really learn from any aggression he puts in on the flop. I don't really play a lot of 6-max so it's hard for me to interpret his stats and his play.

milesdyson · #12 09-13-2005, 01:33 AM

something that really sucks is that he can fold 99/TT/JJ to the flop check raise, and he can call the check raise with AA/KK/QQ and raise the turn (and i then have to call the turn raise).

try not to look at his stats as this was only my 16th hand with him.

ArturiusX · #13 09-13-2005, 05:15 AM

Sorry, but this hand was played like a 40/5 party fish.

milesdyson · #14 09-13-2005, 10:54 AM

and this is a terrible post.

tell me how to play it.

car ramrod · #15 09-13-2005, 11:04 AM

You say button is actually pretty good, so I am assuming he is not 3betting pf with out AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, maybe TT and AQs

Now what is he willing to cap the turn with, QQ, KK, maybe AK, but not sure. So, you only beat AK.

I think I would have check raised the flop to see if he slows down, and then gets frisky again on the turn.

Now we also have MP in the hand. He could hold a variety of hands, but with the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the river, plus the button (who is probably just slowing down b/c of the flush) then I would just call the river.

GTSamIAm · #16 09-13-2005, 11:08 AM

I'd consider folding to the turn double bet. It looks like button has a set of queens or kings. He went ahead and capped after MP3 check/3-bet. You probably have MP3 beat, unless he has a weaker set, which is a likely holding. I think between MP3 and button, though, you're probably beaten.

Looking at the river, these reads fit alright. MP3 probably has at least a set, he may have had AJh or JTh or maybe even T9h, and gotten tricky on the turn. Button may be going for overcalls on a scary board. I don't like the raise at all. You were drawing to a boat on the turn and you missed.

milesdyson · #17 09-13-2005, 11:53 AM

well you're basically saying i'm drawing dead on the turn, so my full house draw is pointless anyway (which could be the case). i just don't see how he can flat call the river bet with KK/QQ after the turn action (he can only have KK or QQ one way each anyway). and since the guy 3-betting is a lag, i could totally imagine him capping AK or AA here, and there are 6 combos of AA and 8 combos of AK. if he would cap with all of them on the turn, 14/16 times i'm ahead, so i can't really fold the turn.

tiltaholic · #18 09-13-2005, 12:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i was just looking over some random hands, and i found this one. i thought it was interesting. what i have written (and their stats, which i may or may not have had access to at the time):

KQs 12584 coldcaller's an idiot lag

MP: 57/12/1.5 (65 hands)
Button: 50/13.2/1 (68 hands)

even though they have similar stats, button was really on a tear at this table (MP was not). because of that i probably only saw him play good hands well, and i used to only take notes on the bad players (at least who i thought looked bad). that said, here's the hand:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP calls, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (18.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, Hero raises ...

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't see what the river raise is accompishing here.

forgetting the reads, and treating them as unknowns: an unknown just woke up on the turn and check-3bet a pf raiser and 3-bettor. the pf 3-better then caps the turn. i can see calling the 2 bets on the turn, since you have outs (and hell, maybe they are crazy) -- but i don't like the river raise at all.

milesdyson · #19 09-13-2005, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i don't see what the river raise is accompishing here.

forgetting the reads, and treating them as unknowns: an unknown just woke up on the turn and check-3bet a pf raiser and 3-bettor. the pf 3-better then caps the turn. i can see calling the 2 bets on the turn, since you have outs (and hell, maybe they are crazy) -- but i don't like the river raise at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
well don't forget the read on MP. when i write "idiot lag" in my notes it means what it says. the one type of player more pointlessly aggressive gets tagged a maniac, so he's up there (i don't remember why i wrote this, but he must have done something pretty bad).

read my post above and look at hand combos that the 3-bettor would have. any amount of hand reading would tell him that neither of us have a flush on that river, so he should still be aggressive. i see him simply call the bet and my take is that he does have AK or AA. so i'm raising for value and i really don't mind if i get 3-bet by the lag.

tiltaholic · #20 09-13-2005, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't see what the river raise is accompishing here.

forgetting the reads, and treating them as unknowns: an unknown just woke up on the turn and check-3bet a pf raiser and 3-bettor. the pf 3-better then caps the turn. i can see calling the 2 bets on the turn, since you have outs (and hell, maybe they are crazy) -- but i don't like the river raise at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
well don't forget the read on MP. when i write "idiot lag" in my notes it means what it says. the one type of player more pointlessly aggressive gets tagged a maniac, so he's up there (i don't remember why i wrote this, but he must have done something pretty bad).

read my post above and look at hand combos that the 3-bettor would have. any amount of hand reading would tell him that neither of us have a flush on that river, so he should still be aggressive. i see him simply call the bet and my take is that he does have AK or AA. so i'm raising for value and i really don't mind if i get 3-bet by the lag.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok. then i was a little confused about that then.
if MP is still an idiot lag and button is an unknown, YHILG and i like the raise a lot more. however, QQ and KK (likely for button) will also slow down when the 3rd flush card hits sometimes...since i'm generally a wuss i probably don't raise the river (however my river play alternates between spew and weak/tight - so i dunno)