What You Protestants Don't Seem to Get

I never said that I had faith.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
Teach the ignorant so that they too my know.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the ones who aren't ignorant but require either proof or at least something that makes logical sense? Are they to be abandoned, left for dead?

The only thing(s) that I 'believe' is/are

Gasoline is three bucks a gallon where I live.
Bluffing is rarely adviseable in a loose game.
Good sex is wonderful but a good lay will do.
Momma's baby Poppa's maybe.
Hearsts don't have luggage racks.
etc...

Sorry I was under the assumption that the man thinks I am ignorant, which I am. I was asking Him to teach me. I was not giving the call to evengelism.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus himself said that he spoke in parables so that some may be confused and not understand.

I am not denying that God has given us a true transmission, but just that there are times when God muddies the waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have stated I am not replying to this poster anymore and I am just replying for the benefit of others. There are many religious truths taught in parables, but really not any doctrines that are disputed among the denominations, so parables are not a correct example of what I am talking about and that should be obvious.

But what is absolutely comical about this poster's use of parables as an example, is that although Jesus did mean not to explain the meanings of parables to those hearers who did not have an open mind and heart, He explained each and every one of them to the apostles and those explanations are written plain in the gospels for anyone to read.

The reason I said I wouldn't debate with this poster is that it is too much work to constantly explain semantic meaning and logical conclusions. He just made my point in spades.

[BluffTHIS!]

NotReady and spaminator, where are you?

[baggins]

"When you profess faith in any belief system, whether religious, mathematical or scientific, you start out with certain premises or axioms which by definition cannot be proved to certainty, but the evidence for same is enough for you, espcially if you believe you possess personal evidence that tips the scales"

i don't profess faith in any belief systems. I have given my heart and my life based on my Faith in the Living God. there is a difference.

If you believe in me as a teacher and a leader, and you trust me, then it doesn't matter that other people interpret my teaching and leadership methods in varous, and often conflicting ways. what matters is that your faith rests in me, and that you follow me.

the same goes for my Faith in God. I learn from the preachers in my church, and others I discuss my faith with. I learn from Catholic and Baptist and Lutheran and Covenant and non-denominational teaching. I don't believe any of them have a stranglehold on Truth. but, I don't believe that is the point, either. I believe the point is to live our lives as fully devoted followers of Christ, and to live by the 2 simple commandments that He emphasized: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, your mind, and your strength. and Love your neighbor as yourself. if you can follow those 2 things, you don't have to worry about commandments and special purification laws and whether or not you baptize your child as an infant or whether its ok to pray to Mary or sell indulgences or speak in tongues. I think the biggest weapon in Satan's very real and very potent attack on the Body of Christ (the church, ALL who believe in Him) is that of getting people mixed up and fighting over theology and politics. it takes the focus squarely away from the main point, which is to love Jesus and serve other people (through meeting their needs and leading them back to God).

we can argue about which doctrines are better, and the truth and historicity of those doctrines, and the political ramifications, but we'd be missing the point.

i hope that makes sense. at least enough for you to see where i am coming from.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
But if you can't even make logical arguments with fellow Christians, then you have no hope of ever persuading thinking non-believers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's a hoot.

Perhaps they should concentrate on non-thinking non-believers? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

And what are the axioms behind your last statement?

-Zeno

You don't always have to try and prove your stance. When it comes to religions, often living an example of your faith is the best way to puruade someone. You can debate with them till you're blue in the face, but if they see you acting on your belief's they will atleast know without a doubt that you have put all your faith into your religion. That will be more persuading than ancient documentation any day.

[Peter666]

"I give tons more respect to the intellectually honest views of atheists and agnostics like andy or David, than I do to any Christian who either can't formulate logically correct views, denies logical implications, or worse yet can't even see them."

I like this statement very much. We could live in a perfect world subject only to the laws of nature if it wasn't for all those other religions and philosophies messing things up.

World peace and harmony would be achieved as long as everyone would consent to the rule of logic, which only true Catholics or true scientists/mathematicians seem to do. Of course, the agnostics and atheists would still go to Hell, but at least we would have a good time together before death.