Wait until the turn to raise?

Baloosh · #1 08-20-2005, 10:04 PM

Is this a classic example of when we should just call the flop, and wait until the turn to raise? Board was somewhat coordinated... and I wanted to make sure gutshots didn't get odds to call on the flop.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Paxosmotic · #2 08-20-2005, 10:08 PM

No way. We have a staggeringly high equity edge in this hand, we need to push our edges while we can.

@bsolute_luck · #3 08-20-2005, 10:08 PM

umm...no. your hand is too strong to wait.

Baloosh · #4 08-20-2005, 10:11 PM

But then gutshots can call profitably for a single bet, and they would not be making a mistake to call on the flop, right?

Paxosmotic · #5 08-20-2005, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But then gutshots can call profitably for a single bet, and they would not be making a mistake to call on the flop, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Our raise is not to protect our hand, it is for value. It's the same action, you click the raise button, but we call it for value since draws can call profitably.

detruncate · #6 08-20-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Is this a classic example of when we should just call the flop, and wait until the turn to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Not even close. We're not worried about hand protection. We almost certainly have the best hand + the best draw. Our equity is huge. Ginormous even. We raise for value and hope it goes 4 bets 6-ways (and that nobody has AA in that case).

Bradyams · #7 08-20-2005, 10:19 PM

I wish Ed Miller never would have put the section in SSHE about protecting your hand. This concept is misapplied way too much.

Anyway your flop raise does give the other callers insufficient odds to call with a gutshot. That's the least of our worries though. As far as I'm concerned I want those gutshots calling me, and I want them putting in as many bets as possible. You have a huge equity edge here, and the more bets everyone puts in the more money you make.

SoftcoreRevolt · #8 08-20-2005, 10:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But then gutshots can call profitably for a single bet, and they would not be making a mistake to call on the flop, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't try to trap with monsters like this, just get bets in. There's no need to try to make people make mistakes to protect your hand, you want them in here.

bozlax · #9 08-20-2005, 10:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a classic example of when we should just call the flop, and wait until the turn to raise? Board was somewhat coordinated... and I wanted to make sure gutshots didn't get odds to call on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got a HUGE equity edge. Push it now. Among other things, if a gutshot stays in, you've got better odds of making a boat than they do of making their straight.

[homer]4 players in a capped flop....mmmmmmmmmmm.[/homer]

detruncate · #10 08-20-2005, 10:32 PM

Gutshots are getting, what... 15:2 when you raise? They're probably ok with implied odds in this pot, but it's not a clearly profitable call. Let's assume they were getting correct odds. And that there's one out there. You still make money when they call correctly. Run through the math if you're not convinced (this is a serious suggestion, not a snarky "I'm right and you're wrong" sort of thing).

Don't take the nature of the responses the wrong way. People are trying to help you see that you're looking at this the wrong way.