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#11
08-05-2005, 01:20 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
[ QUOTE ]
Still, it's a little weird to be crowing about your opponent's mistakes when you made some questionable plays yourself. /mc [/ QUOTE ] Ahhhh, I'm not getting sucked into this. I didn't make "some" questionable plays, I made one questionable/incorrect call, which I mention right up front. I'm not "crowing" about their mistakes, just pointing them out after you suggested that they didn't play that badly. I just thought it was funny that all three of them put in 3 bets on the turn when it was reasonably certain that they were drawing for a chop or at best a 2-outer. Hell, I put "LC" right there in the header. I'm sorry if it wasn't entertaining. I'll try to do better in the future. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] 
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#12
08-05-2005, 01:31 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Still, it's a little weird to be crowing about your opponent's mistakes when you made some questionable plays yourself. /mc [/ QUOTE ] Ahhhh, I'm not getting sucked into this. I didn't make "some" questionable plays, I made one questionable/incorrect call, which I mention right up front. I'm not "crowing" about their mistakes, just pointing them out after you suggested that they didn't play that badly. I just thought it was funny that all three of them put in 3 bets on the turn when it was reasonably certain that they were drawing for a chop or at best a 2-outer. Hell, I put "LC" right there in the header. I'm sorry if it wasn't entertaining. I'll try to do better in the future. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Your flop 3-bet is also very questionable. You've got the low end of an OESD on a 2flush board. Your awesome draw isn't awesome nearly as much as you think. Rob
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#13
08-05-2005, 01:34 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't make "some" questionable plays, I made one questionable/incorrect call... [/ QUOTE ] The flop 3-bet is questionable. [ QUOTE ] I'm sorry if it wasn't entertaining. [/ QUOTE ] I'm enjoying this, though! /mc
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#14
08-05-2005, 01:38 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
I still like the 3-bet.
totally disguises my hand if I hit, might get me a free card if I don't, helps to define BB's hand, 2 additional callers coming along for the ride, I've got position....
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#15
08-05-2005, 01:43 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
I opened this thread expecting to see something like this:
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks. Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, CO folds, Button calls. Turn: (4 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls. River: (7 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls. Final Pot: 10 BB Results below: Hero has 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, aces and eights). UTG has A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, aces and eights). Button has T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, aces and eights). Outcome: UTG wins 10 BB.
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#16
08-05-2005, 02:05 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
[ QUOTE ]
I still like the 3-bet. totally disguises my hand if I hit, might get me a free card if I don't, helps to define BB's hand, 2 additional callers coming along for the ride, I've got position.... [/ QUOTE ] It's bad dude. Your outs are tainted. J's are certainly tainted. Diamonds are tainted. There are plenty of redraws on this board -- a hand like KQ is very plausible. You're not getting a free card on this board very often at all. Your equity is not good with the pot being 4-handed (welcome to why we don't play 98o in this situation when we can avoid it). Here's your equity if BB has something like: an overpair, a set, top pair, or a gutshot with overcards (AQ/AK), SB has a few potential diamond draws, top pair, two pair, a straight draw, and if UTG has completely random suited cards. Hand 1: 35.7171 % 34.83% 00.93% { TT+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo } Hand 2: 28.8821 % 26.27% 02.64% { Ad4d, KJs, QJs, JTs, 9d4d, 7d3d, KJo+, QJo, JTo, T9o, 98o } Hand 3: 16.7037 % 16.07% 00.65% { A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s } Hand 4: 18.6971 % 16.72% 02.00% { 9c8h }
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#17
08-05-2005, 02:11 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
[ QUOTE ]
I still like the 3-bet. totally disguises my hand if I hit, might get me a free card if I don't, helps to define BB's hand, 2 additional callers coming along for the ride, I've got position.... [/ QUOTE ] You're listing a bunch of pros but ignoring the cons. Re. hand disguise, the danger of you making your hand and not getting paid off is very small. The danger of you making your hand and losing is much larger. Also 2-card straights are already hard to see, the extra camouflage isn't worth the price. The possibility of a free card is real, but so is the possibility of a cap behind you, meaning that a lot of times instead of saving half a big bet, you are paying an extra big bet. Also, these two ideas are somewhat contradictory. If you do hit a 7 you don't want it checked to you, you'd rather have a bet in front of you to raise. /mc
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#18
08-05-2005, 02:13 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
Ok, I give up.
Other than to say that it's a little meaningless to put ranges on their hands after the fact, and that I don't need to have even 25% equity on the flop to make raising correct, and that given their actual holdings I had 27% equity on the flop. Yeah, I suck, but I just can't let go (of this thread that I totally regret posting now, lol).
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#19
08-05-2005, 02:21 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I give up. Other than to say that it's a little meaningless to put ranges on their hands after the fact, and that I don't need to have even 25% equity on the flop to make raising correct, and that given their actual holdings I had 27% equity on the flop. Yeah, I suck, but I just can't let go (of this thread that I totally regret posting now, lol). [/ QUOTE ] 1) You *do* need 25% equity on the flop to make raising correct in terms of EV. 2) It's *very* important to try to put your opponents on a range of hands; what does SB bet out into this field with? What will BB raise, given that range? Rob
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#20
08-05-2005, 02:22 PM
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Re: you know you\'re at the right table when....(LC)
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I give up. Other than to say that it's a little meaningless to put ranges on their hands after the fact, [/ QUOTE ] ??? [ QUOTE ] and that I don't need to have even 25% equity on the flop to make raising correct, and that given their actual holdings I had 27% equity on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Now that's meaningless. [ QUOTE ] Yeah, I suck, but I just can't let go (of this thread that I totally regret posting now, lol). [/ QUOTE ] This is a dojo. We're all here to learn. When people attack your play with everything they've got it's a sign of respect. /mc
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