Guess I did scare them off... - Page 2

thesharpie · #11 05-19-2005, 04:53 AM

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You could just call the flop. If I knew it would turn out the way it did with a flop raise I'd do it, but it's not going to often. I just call the flop.

Sounds like you wanted to keep people in? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Quite the contrary -- I was trying to win the pot right then and there, with the flop raise. With two overs on the flop, and a flush and a straight draw out there -- my 10s, if they had any equity left after the flop, were very vulnerable on the turn and river. I raised hoping to knock out the two behind me, and if the bettor called, I was either calling or raising, depending on what fell on the turn.

I figured I had a decent shot headsup, and next to hopeless shot 4-way.

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Think about all the possible 3 betting hands. Pretty much all of them have you beaten, and even if he 3 bets with AQ or 99 he isn't usually going to fold this flop for 1 more.

Edit: I forgot to even mention having to worry about .50 players that love to call 2 cold on the flop with anything beating you.

aK13 · #12 05-19-2005, 04:53 AM

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Hmm...I like it, although the raise on the flop is quite bold.

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Sheeeeeit... just calling in that spot guarantees that the two behind me coldcall, and possibly raise their Kx trash. I was trying to get it headsup with the flop better, and was folding to a re-raise.

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Yeah, I would probably have folded that hand to the flop bet, considering there are 2 overs. Bad play?

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You don't ever consider representing AKo in that scenario? I managed to scare off any Jx, and any Kx -- except for AK (obviously). My tens probably weren't the best hand after the flop (unless those coldcallers are complete Leroy Jenkins's) so I though the pot was just big enough to risk and extra SB if I had any chance at all.

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I consider it all the time. I just don't think my opponents notice very often, nor do they fold. At all. Especially at .5/1.

EDIT: nifty, 700th post, old hand =)

Baloosh · #13 05-19-2005, 04:54 AM

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This is pretty bad. If you do raise you should call a reraise as you're getting correct odds. The reason I say just call on the flop is because the odds are good enough, and they're even better once the pad is potted if he 3 bets. I would fold in a smaller pot but you have a couple of marginal backdoor draws and your set draw which makes peeling one ok.

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Yeah, 18:1 against a re-raise (provided the other two fold) would end up being enough to peel one, wouldn't it? The flop raise also helped define the flop bettors hand -- looks like he might have been semi-bluffing with QJ?

aK13 · #14 05-19-2005, 04:56 AM

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This is pretty bad. If you do raise you should call a reraise as you're getting correct odds. The reason I say just call on the flop is because the odds are good enough, and they're even better once the pad is potted if he 3 bets. I would fold in a smaller pot but you have a couple of marginal backdoor draws and your set draw which makes peeling one ok.

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Yeah, 18:1 against a re-raise (provided the other two fold) would end up being enough to peel one, wouldn't it? The flop raise also helped define the flop bettors hand -- looks like he might have been semi-bluffing with QJ?

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I just think SB is being redonkulous. Call 3 on the flop when he's going to be OOP the entire hand, then leads a nice high card flop.

Baloosh · #15 05-19-2005, 04:57 AM

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Think about all the possible 3 betting hands. Pretty much all of them have you beaten, and even if he 3 bets with AQ or 99 he isn't usually going to fold this flop for 1 more.

Edit: I forgot to even mention having to worry about .50 players that love to call 2 cold on the flop with anything beating you.

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Yes, all the possible 3-betting hands have me beaten (including Jx) so isn't my best play to try and win the pot right then and there?

thesharpie · #16 05-19-2005, 04:58 AM

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EDIT: nifty, 700th post, old hand =)

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Congrats man. I planned on saying it before you did when I noticed it coming up but too late. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

thesharpie · #17 05-19-2005, 05:00 AM

Ah I just noticed SB wasn't the 3 bettor, which sways me in the direction of folding the flop having to worry about MP3 raising.

Edit:

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Yes, all the possible 3-betting hands have me beaten (including Jx) so isn't my best play to try and win the pot right then and there?

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If you knew the outcome would turn out like this, yes. I don't think it's going to go like this often enough to be the right play.

Baloosh · #18 05-19-2005, 05:02 AM

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Ah I just noticed SB wasn't the 3 bettor, which sways me in the direction of folding the flop having to worry about MP3 raising.

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Which is what I meant -- folding to a re-raise on the flop by MP3. SB, if he re-raised, probably had me beaten too. But I think I can run SB down, with position. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Baloosh · #19 05-19-2005, 05:03 AM

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If you knew the outcome would turn out like this, yes. I don't think it's going to go like this often enough to be the right play.

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Hmmmm.. perhaps it's time to re-think my Agression. I'll definitely have to mull this one over for a while...

aK13 · #20 05-19-2005, 05:09 AM

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If you knew the outcome would turn out like this, yes. I don't think it's going to go like this often enough to be the right play.

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Hmmmm.. perhaps it's time to re-think my Agression. I'll definitely have to mull this one over for a while...

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I think that this was just one of those "spur of the moment" plays that you just decided to try, and ended up working out ok. I've done this a few times also (like my UTG+1 blind steal). In the long run, these are probably not +EV plays, but it's nice to experiment and have other 2+2ers critique random plays that turned out ok, but probably won't on a normal basis.