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  #21  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

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Most, if not all, existentialist philosophers.

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OK, I was pretty sure you were talking about Sartre etc. Rest assured that what they have in mind when they say the "universe is irrational" is completely different from what I mean when I say it. It's perfectly possible for the universe to be both absurd (in the Sartre sense) and ruthlessly logical at the same time.

What I'm saying is that the universe is ruthlessly logical (laws of physics etc.). One of the results of this is that the universe has no interest whatsoever in our human desires. This, I believe, is what Sartre was getting at with his talk about absurdity (the lack of any relation between our desires and the universe's desires).

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about Sartre's POV. My knowledge of his writings/ideas is rather limited. Nevertheless, he was mostly talking about human desires and how they relate to the universe as a whole. I'm just talking about the universe as a whole. Human desires don't enter into it when it comes to the fundamental validity of the rules of logic as far as I'm concerned.
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2005, 09:55 AM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

Being part of the process is NOT insignificant or purposeless. Life is what you make of it.

I often wonder what would happen if science ever DID prove the non-existence of god. Would all theists jump off bridges because they could see no significance in living another day? Un-friggin real.
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:13 AM
BradyC BradyC is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

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I hear many atheists claim that the laws of logic are self-evident and axiomatic and cannot be proven.

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You need to get out more. Even if their claims are true, it has nothing to do with atheism ( it maybe part of their route to atheism, but so what). That would be like believing everybody at the bus stop took the bus there.

luckyme

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I didn't say it had anything to do with just atheism, I just said I hear many atheists claim it. Logic seems to be a popular "route" to atheism (from what I have seen). I guess that is the "route" I am trying to understand. But my mind is inclined to question the nature of logic and where it comes from before I use it as a means of what I believe. I can't see, smell, touch, hear, or taste logic. Yet I believe it. Why? It just seems inconsistent to me that some people claim they rely on nothing but empirical evidence (I am not saying all atheists believe this) while simultaneously believing in logic, then go on to insist a person is irrational if they believe in God. Am I misunderstanding this position? And do you believe faith is required to use logic?
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  #24  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:37 AM
hmkpoker hmkpoker is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

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A creator seems far more logical to me than believing in this soup which life crawled from with no evidence. At least people have said that there is little evidence for belief in a God... atheism is a hope that we are insignifficant, purposeless beings that are going to bite the dust soon enough. There will be no repurcussions for the life we have lived, utter meaningless.

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I find it interesting that some members of the human race developed a crude cerebral structure in their lower intestinal lining. This allows them to construct certain thoughts and opinions entirely within their anus.
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  #25  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:54 AM
bocablkr bocablkr is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

[ QUOTE ]
A creator seems far more logical to me than believing in this soup which life crawled from with no evidence. At least people have said that there is little evidence for belief in a God... atheism is a hope that we are insignifficant, purposeless beings that are going to bite the dust soon enough. There will be no repurcussions for the life we have lived, utter meaningless.

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Who says there is a 'little' evidence of god - there is absolutely NO evidence of god. That is why they call it faith. You don't need faith to believe in something if there is evidence for it. Thus atheist don't need faith - they see evidence of their logical beliefs everywhere.
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  #26  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:35 AM
Jeff V Jeff V is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

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It just seems inconsistent to me that some people claim they rely on nothing but empirical evidence (I am not saying all atheists believe this) while simultaneously believing in logic, then go on to insist a person is irrational if they believe in God. Am I misunderstanding this position? And do you believe faith is required to use logic?



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Ha. Welcome to the insanity wagon.
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:38 AM
Jeff V Jeff V is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

Though i may not agree with you in this case-that was funny.
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:42 AM
Jeff V Jeff V is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

"I often wonder what would happen if science ever DID prove the non-existence of god. Would all theists jump off bridges because they could see no significance in living another day? Un-friggin real."

Reverse that question, and give your answer.
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  #29  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

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"I often wonder what would happen if science ever DID prove the non-existence of god. Would all theists jump off bridges because they could see no significance in living another day? Un-friggin real."

Reverse that question, and give your answer.

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You didnt think this through. The answer is that if I saw proof god existed, I would not jump of a bridge, I would convert to the relevant religion.

Now you give your answer to the original question.
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  #30  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:51 AM
hmkpoker hmkpoker is offline
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Default Re: Logic in an atheistic worldview

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Though i may not agree with you in this case-that was funny.

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Thank you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I don't make fun of Christians. I make fun of imbeciles.
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