Semi-Deep JJ Top Set

PokerFink · #1 12-05-2005, 03:35 AM

This is pretty marginal between the two forums, and I feel like making the first marginal MSNL thread. Xorbie, feel free to move it if you want, but please chime in if you're going to do so =).

Reads: Villian is pretty solid. He is 45/15, but he has been playing well postflop and consistantly gets the money in with the best of it. I've been at the table with him for atleast two hours, and this is the first preflop re-raise he has made. I instantly put him on AA/KK/QQ and AK.

What is bizarre about him is that he underbets a lot. He will bet the flop small like this with any of the holdings I put him on. But when the money really goes into the pot, he has a big hand. The big pots he has played, he has been the aggressor.

Stars NL100 6-Max 6-Handed

BB ($256.15)
Hero ($207.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, BB raises to $8, UTG folds, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($17) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $6, Hero raises to $18, BB calls $12.

Turn: ($53) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $40, BB calls $40.

River: ($133) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $90...

1) Should I play this faster? Should I go pot/pot/push?
2) As played on the flop/turn, a river push would have been about the size of the pot. Should I have pushed the river?
3) How do you play the river if another diamond falls? Do you make a thin value bet? How much do you call if he bets into you?
4) Given my read, does anyone NOT go broke if he has AdKd and check/raises the turn all-in?

soah · #2 12-05-2005, 03:39 AM

Flop raise is much too small.

Big_Jim · #3 12-05-2005, 03:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Should I play this faster? Should I go pot/pot/push?

[/ QUOTE ]
That would be a good line, yes. Hard to lay down his hand range, here, especially if he has a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

[ QUOTE ]
2) As played on the flop/turn, a river push would have been about the size of the pot. Should I have pushed the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
Any hand you see calling $90 but folding for $130?

[ QUOTE ]
3) How do you play the river if another diamond falls? Do you make a thin value bet? How much do you call if he bets into you?

[/ QUOTE ]
There's no value in betting a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] river. This guy ain't calling with worse.

If he bets into me, I don't think I ever call.

[ QUOTE ]
4) Given my read, does anyone NOT go broke if he has AdKd and check/raises the turn all-in?

[/ QUOTE ]
Given your read, no way to get away. Very possible he plays AA KK with a diamond like this.

UOPokerPlayer · #4 12-05-2005, 06:46 AM

He's taking a really passive line here. Could mean diamonds, could mean a lot of things. Doubt he checks the river with the flush. Raise the flop more. If you have his range as mostly overpairs, make him pay the most before a scare card comes. I think I'd make a bigger raise than pot, like 40 or so. This looks kind of weird, and I think you get the pot big enough to commit him on the next two streets. This also cuts down on his implied odds. I think it's really tough to get away from this hand, I think giving your opponent credit for the flush heads up a lot is bad policy. You're stuck to getting stacked by the flush unless the board has four imo.

Play it faster? Heck yes.

#5 12-05-2005, 08:52 AM

I would have played it the same.

Regarding your questions:
1. I would have played it like you did.
2. Nah, I think a smaller value bet is better. You may very well scare him away from AA-QQ if you bet more than you did.
3. No value bets here, I check behind. I am probably calling if he bets less than 1/3 of the pot.
4. I would go broke.

Dumle

#6 12-05-2005, 11:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Should I play this faster? Should I go pot/pot/push?

[/ QUOTE ] Ya, I think you should've been able to get it all in on the river and not have it be an overbet. Something like 25 on the flop, around the pot on turn, push on river. The push on the river would be around 110 into a pot of 197 with this line.
As played, I don't think you can get any decent player to call a push on the river. It would be really obvious his hand is beat. Betting 140 into around 130.
Given your read on his range, I think it makes alot of sense to play this much faster.

JKratzer · #7 12-05-2005, 11:50 AM

Given his range, figure out how to get his stack in after the flop. I'd say you managed the pot size well, maybe raise a little more on the flop. I would also consider betting more on the turn. He could have overpair/diamond (possibly nut flush draw) and most opponents would have a hard time laying it down here, while they might be able to get away from the overpair on the river. About a pot-sized bet is what I would lean towards, especially because it makes it that much easier to get his stack on the river.

As played definitely push the river, the difference is small, and I think that betting 80%+ of your stack shows more strength than an all-in.

On a river diamond I don't put any more money into the pot.

If he cr's all-in on the turn you have to call. The chance he could be doing it w/ one diamond plus your outs when he has two make this a call.

JKratzer

FlyingStart · #8 12-05-2005, 12:22 PM

I like the size of your turn bet. it's a little less intimidating than full pot and it doesn't give odds to the A of diamonds. On the flop I like full pot tho.. You need to build this pot.
On the river I think I would either make a 1/3 to 1/2 of the pot since you say he doesn't like big pots without big hands, or I would just shove.. I think the smaller valuebet makes the most here tho..

edit: Maybe slightly overbet the turn and hope he has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. It should be hard for him to lay down then, and it's easier to get the rest in on the river. The downside to this is that he will probably just fold hands without A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], which you could have extracted more from otherwise..

PokerFink · #9 12-05-2005, 02:17 PM

Thanks for the comments everyone. I should definitely had played the flop faster, I really like the idea of making a slight overbet on the flop.

Results

Villian hit his timer, thought for a while, typed "got trips?" into the chat, thought for a while longer, let his timer run all the way from 50 seconds down to 2 seconds, and then called with KK.