Universal suffrage a good thing?

[elwoodblues]

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I'm not trying to be elitist, I'm just trying to say that decisions on certain matters should be made by those qualified to make the decisions

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And that's part of the reason why we don't have a direct democracy, but rather a representative form of government.

[bobman0330]

I think the real problem is that the current voting system introduces a selection bias in favor of irrational people who cannot correctly analyze a simple problem.

Anyone who takes time out of their day to go vote (unless they're 18 and think it's cool, or they're a politican and the media is watching them) is wrong. EV = probability of making a change x value of a change. The tangible value of being the deciding vote is not overwhelmingly huge ($100,000 is a high upper bound, unless you're super-rich and expecting a big tax cut or something along those lines). Probability is vanishingly tiny, well over a million : 1. So:

a) all voters are irrational; or
b) the ones who aren't are voting primarily for self-validation or enjoyment.

Neither group is one that should be running the country. Instead, voting should be like jury duty. 10% called out every election and required to attend a 2-hour issues class, take a test (small fines for failure), then vote. Much better system.

[tylerdurden]

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Ok. What if (and I realize the analogy is starting to get silly) the boss decided for the five buddies that each would have a day and each could choose where to go to lunch on "their" day? Whether they agree it was a good idea or not, there was no vote, and the situation is still democratic because the five people still have equal say on where they eat lunch, and the boss doesn't have any interest in the situation at all.

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That's not democracy. It's equal in some senses, but that's not what defines democracy.

Part of the problem here is that you have a rigid definition of "voting" and a very, very loose definition of democracy.


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I mean, isn't the question of whether or not the US system is democratic important?

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Well, it's pretty clear to anyone that looks at the situation that the US system has democratic aspects but is NOT a "democracy" in a strict sense.

[Arbogast]

If you ever live in a country that has it, let me know....

In the United States of America, only those over 18 have the right to vote.

And I think most states deny felons the right to vote.

I think all this is fine. There's nothing sacred about universal sufferage.

[Felix_Nietsche]

My brother-in-law is from Brazil and in Brazil you are required to vote. The result is every slobbering-knuckle-dragging-retard votes.

I'd like to see the USA restrict voting by requiring potential voters to take a test. Those who pass get a voter's license good for 12 years. Questions like:
1. What are the three branches of the federal govt?
2. What are the first 10 amendments to the constitution called?
3. What is a veto?
4. How many votes are necessary to override a veto?
5. Which branch is required to submit a budget?
6. Which branch has the power to auhtorize the spending of money?

I think about 25%+ of Americans would fail this test even with coaching. The Democrats would lose most of their voters if such a requirement was inacted so I don't see this happening.

[DVaut1]

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My brother-in-law is from Brazil and in Brazil you are required to vote. The result is every slobbering-knuckle-dragging-retard votes.

I'd like to see the USA restrict voting by requiring potential voters to take a test. Those who pass get a voter's license good for 12 years. Questions like:
1. What are the three branches of the federal govt?
2. What are the first 10 amendments to the constitution called?
3. What is a veto?
4. How many votes are necessary to override a veto?
5. Which branch is required to submit a budget?
6. Which branch has the power to auhtorize the spending of money?

I think about 25%+ of Americans would fail this test even with coaching. The Democrats would lose most of their voters if such a requirement was inacted so I don't see this happening.

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Because, of course, Democrats are the secret power brokers in this country -- even when Republicans win elections! (which curiously, right-wingers are absolutely never hesitant to point out).

So you see, even when Republicans win and win and win, they'll never defeat those under-handed Democrats (i.e. liberals, i.e. terroist appeasers, i.e. baby killers), who surreptitiously control every facet of government, society, and culture with their seemingly limit-less powers.

Sleep with one eye open, Mister Grand Poo-Bah Felix. You'll find those black helicopters yet.

[Felix_Nietsche]

????
I'm not sure how you go from voter tests to implying that I back conspiracy theories. I just think that too many politically-uneducated people vote. And most of these uneducated people vote for the Dems.

I do concede that most college professors vote for the Dems.

[TomCollins]

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????
I'm not sure how you go from voter tests to implying that I back conspiracy theories. I just think that too many politically-uneducated people vote. And most of these uneducated people vote for the Dems.

I do concede that most college professors vote for the Dems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do the states with the highest college graduate populations vote more heavily toward Democrats? Maybe they have too much education and you should only vote if you have a high school education but no graduate degree.

[MuckJagger]

How about if you misspell "enacted"? Is that a disqualifier?

[Felix_Nietsche]

Why do the states with the highest college graduate populations vote more heavily toward Democrats?
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First, I have doubts you can support this assertion.
Second, is it not true that minorities vote HEAVILY for the democrats (Blacks 90%+)? And is it not true that minorities tend to be less educated than the general US population?
Third, we could do the same exercise with union voters as well.
Also another factor is the quality of college education a person receives. There are a lot of 4-year black colleges which produce graduates that couldn't survive my high school coursework. The public schools in New Orleans were infamous for producing high school graduates which made retards look smart....

Uneducated voters account for more of the democratic vote than you probably wish to admit.


Maybe they have too much education and you should only vote if you have a high school education but no graduate degree.
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This silly statement is meaningless unless you can support that Dem voters are more educated than Repub voters. Which you have not done.....