A9s 4 handed

I dont like the overcall in hand 2. Sb woke up again and he wouldnt do that with anything you beat. I probably play it like hand 1 but I might call the river too. I dont really like folding TP vs unknowns.

If you weren't to overcall the river in hand 2, I'd like them both. For different reasons.

Hand 1.
I generally stick to the rule
"If I think I have the bettor beat - raise"
BB being the donk he is I think this is a reasonable assumption. The reasonably passive donk then tells you in no uncertain terms you are behind.
Even if he's stupid enough to semibluff 3bet, there's not too many draws that didn't come in with that river card.
I say NH.

Hand 2.
The only reason to check this, is if you thought you were reverse dominated or behind the BB and wanted to see the river cheaply and have SB pad the pot if you did improve.
The river comes, you didn't improve, a couple of draws come in, the SB bets, the BB calls.....no need to call.

If you hadn't overcalled Hand 2., I still think I prefer hand 1.
I think we're ahead of BB more often than we're behind and letting SB draw cheaply if we are ahead blows.

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what about raising the flop? we have the gutshot, at least 1 overcard, and the BDFD.

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If you raise the flop and BB still donks the Ace turn...can you still raise? If yes, I like the flop raise.

I think it's one of those situations where I would wish my overcard wasn't an Ace. I'd somehow feel more comfortable raising the flop with K9s [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[McGahee]

I like calling the turn. The pot isn't big enough to protect from a 4/5 outer that SB looks to be drawing to, and you have no clue where you stand with BB, but I'd say you're beaten a good amount when a .8 AF bets into the PFR on the turn.
I'm not sure how I feel about the river. The overcall isn't terrible because SB might just be pulling a "Oh hell, I'll just bet instead of check/call" and you'd think he'd C/R with a great hand. But these river donks are never bluffs in multi-way pots. I dunno, I don't think it matters much.

[sean c]

I think the flop is close between raise and call. You don't have the equity to raise your seven outer on the flop but on the flip side the pot is big and i hate the thought of just calling and folding the turn UI or making a slim call if there is 7.5 bb in the pot. As played i like hand 1 better for the reasons Jaron gave.

[SlantNGo]

I raise the flop, expecting to get a free card. SB is most likely betting a pair on this board, and I don't think I'd see a 3-bet often.

That being said, I like Hand 2 better. SB will be getting 7:1, not quite enough to profitably call to draw to 2-pair or a set. BB's play is representing an Ace. He could have us outkicked, have two pair, or have something like A3. SB is representing a flopped pair, possibly rivered two-pair. Getting 10 to 1, I have no problem overcalling the river. I think we're ahead of each about 1/3 of the time.

[milesdyson]

i feel i should have done this earlier - a poll:

I'm not sure about the river overcall, but it seems like option 2 is better as far as the turn goes. My reasoning is that BB seems to have an Ace, so you're either way ahead or way behind him. If you're ahead, you don't mind him betting in to you again on the river, and you might make up the extra bet you lose not raising from the SB. If you're behind, you're only asking for trouble by raising. Meanwhile, SB looks to be on a draw. If he is drawing to 2 pair/trips, he has five outs, and you can offer him 7.5:1 by just calling. This is insufficient odds to call, so there is no need to raise to protect. If SB is on a flush draw or has a pair + straight draw, you'll be offering 8.5:2 immediate by raising, but 9.5:2 including BB's call. This gives him sufficient odds to call with a strong draw anyway, so raising probably won't protect your hand either way here.

[hobbsmann]

either way you should be raising the flop.