How do you play the river when your opponents *know* your hand?

[Depraved]

True enough, and of course there will always be callers even if they know you have AA- your post is a shining example of that. I couldn't fathom a noshow on the river for one more bet, so I didn't see much relevance in this line of thought to begin with (especially with 5 players)... it didn't seem like the important issue at hand.

IMO, whether or not worse hands will call here is of minor importance. In this situation, I'd be more concerned about the money already in the pot than the bets I may or may not collect if I'm ahead.

[Eric P]

yes you are totally nuts for thinking that. QJ starting to get ugly, an honestly may be ugly enough. you lead the flop praying that someone will raise with KQ or AQ or a draw that will MAYBE get someone out. Your chances of winning this pot are not good... granted the best out of all the people in the pot, but i would already start cursing about getting my aces cracked when the king came. I just can't see how you took this down, but i've seen crazier things. Check call river if it's only one bet back to you, probably fold to any raise.

[Eric P]

yes but that point doesn't apply, the main worry here is that when he bets what MIGHT (not likely after the king falls with 5 opponents) be a winning hand, he is ALMOST ALWAYS going to get called, and a large percentage he will be rasied by an easily made better hand. If you think it's hard to call when you are behind try folding your aces to a raise on that river, with that pot. You can't fold just incase some guy had AK and is now betting top pair-kicker. Your point is true, bet if you have the winner, but this is a very foggy situation, if you can show down for 1 bet that is the optimal situation here, unless of course they show you their hands. Best way for that to happen is to check-call, if it gets checked around you only 1 or 2 bets, if you bet and there is a raise are you going to lay it down? no, the river is almost an even money situation and your priority is showing down at this point i think.

[Depraved]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, whether or not worse hands will call here is of minor importance.

[/ QUOTE ]

To rephrase more accurately, whether or not worse hands will call here is a non-issue since they almost certainly will. To me, the issue is whether you should try to eek out some value bets here or become defensive (which could be scared from another perspective).

[cero_z]

Hi coolhand,
I've read the results, so it's easy for me to say, but I'd usually bet the river against the lineup you described. One reason for betting not mentioned yet is that since the pot is so big, people will call with even worse hands than usual.
And no, you of course can't bet and fold to a raise here, with roughly a million bagillion dollars in the pot. I play Stud 8 against an even weaker lineup than you describe, and my biggest leak is occasionally folding a winner in a big pot, because I reason that even the dumbest player knows that so and so has a flush, so he must be able to beat that if he's raising. I'm still surprised from time to time at their stupidity and mine.

[coolhandkuhn]

Maybe I'm giving my opponents too much credit, but after a cap by me in the blinds, everyone but the two unknowns are putting me on a big pocket pair -- even the non-thinking fish. If I check the flop, who can I expect to bet into me? Normally, I like you line of play (check/call flop, check/raise turn) -- but given how much info. I gave up about my hand w/the pre-flop action, I don't think anyone is falling for a flop check. Maybe I'm wrong, but the fish I play with are smart enough (IMHO) to recognize a four-bet from the blind pre-flop by a tight player as a big hand.

[rigoletto]

and a large percentage he will be rasied by an easily made better hand.

How do you figure?? I think he should only worry about a raise from the str8, most of this lineup will not raise 2 pair in fear of KK. I think the value of betting here far supercedes the times you have to call a raise.