avg's. since the crackdown

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Palmeiro's decline this year probably has more to do with his age than any steroids connection. I actually think that he didn't juice, but im probably in the minority there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's tough to think he wouldn't use performance enhancing drugs when he's a spokesman for Viagra.

[/ QUOTE ]



Giggity giggity giggity

[SpearsBritney]

Trust me, they still get their juice. The owners would make sure of it. Just another political smokescreen to make us think all is well.

peace

conspiracy man

[DougOzzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom Verducci had a big article in SI on the increase in "small ball and pitching" and the decrease in home runs this year. Good read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Home runs are down a bit. But it's not a "huge" change like most people are saying. There have been bigger dips in the past 10 years.

[KDawgCometh]

the homerun is way down in college ball too. THere has been in the past five years a shift towards a more pitching and small ball style of play in both the majors and college. THe steriod controversy might've just sped up the change at the major league level

[Drac]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of guys I think who did steroids are now injured. Also, a LOT are RPs who you wouldn't think, so I'm not sure about them.

I haven't noticed a real declination among players who I didn't expect to in skills, besides Giambi. Perhaps you could look at a guy like Chavez, but has he gotten any smaller? It seems to me that the jobs they've done to crack down shows that either they did a lackluster job and people are still doing it, or there weren't as many as we believed.

Edit- I'm looking through again and found Travis Hafner,

I'll look for some more examples. Casey Blake Victor Martinez

Blake, Martinez and Hafner all Indians and all experienced a large fall in all stats, coincidence?

Rafael Palmeiro, part of the steriods controversy this winter

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think it's solid evidence to pick 2 guys with one year of experience, one guy with 2 years of experience, and a 40 year old to illustrate a drop in performance? Hafner, Blake, and Martinez all have way too small a base line to make any kind of judgements at this point. Palmeiro is a fossil who's power numbers dropped off pretty hard last year.

I think Brett Boone is a better candidate but he's had some pretty big swings in the past. He's always seemed more of a "little" guy with big guy arms. Based on comments Roger Clemens made about Palmeiro early in their MLB careers I think Raffy was a legitimate candidate to be on the juice. In his first full 7 seasons he averaged just under 20 dingers a year then went on to average over 41 a year for the next 9 seasons. That kind of increase seems a little fishy.

I don't follow the NL much but a guy that screamed roids to me from the first time I saw him was Pujols. I've never heard his name in a steroid discussion before but good lord are his arms huge! On TV he just looks like he has too much muscle for his frame.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't follow the NL much but a guy that screamed roids to me from the first time I saw him was Pujols. I've never heard his name in a steroid discussion before but good lord are his arms huge! On TV he just looks like he has too much muscle for his frame.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to La Russa, Pujols is without question the hardest working player he has ever had. I haven't really noticed anything about his physique over the last few years. He's only 25 and he first came into the league at 21 so you'd expect him to fill out a bit. Pujols would actually be one of the last superstars I would think took steroids.

[pryor15]

haven't seen how he looks, but i think boone was due for a big drop in production anyway. he was trending downward, if i remember correctly.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
haven't seen how he looks, but i think boone was due for a big drop in production anyway. he was trending downward, if i remember correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

And he's an oldish 2B that has accrued a lot of playing time. 2Bs and Cs are prone to fall off a cliff around 33. See: Roberto Alomar.