A nice twist

[leon]

Although it won him the pot here, I can't believe the button doesn't 3 bet the flop with all those retarded cold callers rather than going for the turn raise. I say it won him the pot b/c if he 3 bets the flop you probably see a showdown.

Leon

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Good raise by him that turned into a brilliant raise because I made what turned out to be a terrible fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so much a bad play by you as an example of why it sucks to be out of position. He knows both the flop and turn couldn't of hit you, so he raises figuring raise/check cost the same as call/call.

[PokerBob]

Many here (who I'm sure play much better than me) are advocating a preflop fold. I just don't see it. BB is very likely coming along here, which means we are getting 10.5:1.5 on our investment. Even if we are dominated (which isn't a given) isn't it foolish not to get invloved here? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[PokerBob]

Clark,
IMO your flop c/r makes it look like you are trying to protect a weak made hand by blowing out the field. Do you think this made it easier for button to pop the turn on you?

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
BB is very likely coming along here, which means we are getting 10.5:1.5 on our investment. Even if we are dominated (which isn't a given) isn't it foolish not to get invloved here? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
The odds don't tell the story because we aren't all in. There's no question that if there were no postflop betting, we would like our hand here (given that at least some of the limpers are practically dead money). The problem is that there are still three rounds of betting to come in which we will be out of position with a hand that isn't so great for these sorts of multiway volume pots against a good player who may or may not have us dominated. Even though we often aren't dominated, it's hard to know if we are which is going to make this difficult to play well.

The best demonstration of why some want to fold is the way that it actually played out. Clark was the one with the dominating hand (KQ vs KJ) and yet his poor position and lack of information about where he was caused him to lose the pot (and several bets) anyway.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
The best demonstration of why some want to fold is the way that it actually played out. Clark was the one with the dominating hand (KQ vs KJ) and yet his poor position and lack of information about where he was caused him to lose the pot (and several bets) anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your point here, but IMO a large part of this problem comes from what the turn card was.