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  #1  
Old 03-03-2005, 03:27 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

I have been reading Sklanksy's TOP, and on pp191-192, and also on several other occasions in the book he states that you want an aggressive player to bluff even more.

On p196 he says when you are up against an opponent who bluffs too much you want to induce him to bluff more.

On p197 he states "Clearly you should never stop bluffs by people who bluff too much."

This is very easy to do in full ring games, you just wait for the right cards and bust a super LAG. But when you are heads up and have a piece of the blinds every time, you can't afford to wait around.

So do you really still want to induce an aggressive player to bluff even more?

I obviously call down with any pair, strong draws, two over cards, etc. But could someone familiar with HU play give any tips on dealing with a super aggressive player who bluffs too much?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2005, 03:32 PM
J.R. J.R. is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

A high and any pair are hands that should be shown down (i.e. lower your standards to call down ), and position is very improtant, especially with a speculative holding. Don't bluff/semi-bluff as much as you would weaker player (although some agrgessives shut down in the face of aggression, most battle back).
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2005, 06:14 PM
Trix Trix is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

I´ve started to check alot more when heads up against someone who is very aggro and likes to bluff, intending to get to showdown cheapish and giving him a chance to bluff when he has nothing at all.
I´m not sure if it´s good though..
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2005, 06:20 PM
PokerMike PokerMike is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

Sklansky on bluffing

Great post.
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2005, 06:21 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

Trix,

More checking and calling is what Sklansky advocates. Checking induces the bluff, and he says if you're going to induce, ie: check, then you have to call (unless your opponent is showing more aggression than normal, indicating a made hand).

It just goes against everything I have been trying to do up to this point [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2005, 06:22 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

Thanks for that link Mike.
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  #7  
Old 03-04-2005, 05:51 AM
theRealMacoy theRealMacoy is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

ditto

thanx mike for the link

cheers
the real macoy
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  #8  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:23 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

Will someone please help me out here, I feel like a complete idiot...

I read the thread Mike listed, I have read the sections on bluffing in books like Sklansky's TOP, and I understand you want someone to bet more than the optimum frequency because it is +EV when you call with good or marginal hands, but I am honestly getting slaughtered heads up by over aggressive opponents betting the flop EVERY SINGLE TIME I check to them.

I understand you need to call with any pair, A high, even K high sometimes, two over cards, and any decent draw.

However, what about when I keep running into hand after hand of crap? Undercards with no chance of calling, no pairs, no draws, nothing. Sometimes this will go on for 10-15 times in a row, then a single glimmer of a hand, then back to the same routine. If I try to call bluffs down with crap I am going broke. Just for the "fun of it" I even tried it a few times and got blistered.

Is the answer as simple as: "If you have crap you were going to lose anyway, so quit crying about bad streaks. The purpose of the theory is when you call down with something."

Pathetic, I know, but I am running into it bad...

As a side note, I have no trouble playing HU in the evening when the games are softer, I do quite well. But my intention is obviously to move up, so I keep banging my head against the wall with these super LAGs knowing I have to develop some type of strategy.
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:46 PM
Brom Brom is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

I'll try to throw in some little points that maybe you are not understanding.

First off you should not be just calling all the way when you have a good hand. You have to throw a raise or two in there sometimes. The object here is to win more with this hand then you lost on the previous (junk) hands. If all the pots that you win are just one bet on each street, and all the pots you opponent wins are more than that then he will more than likely come out ahead unless you win a lot more than he does (which I doubt due to your folding).

You also have to sometimes be able to pull off a win with those junk hands when you have absolutely nothing. Check-raises and steal reraises best serve this. You need to look into your opponent's betting pattern a little more and decide what it means when he: bets out, check-raises, waits for the turn to raise, 3-bets, etc. You may be able to determine he always tries a certain move when he has a nothing hand, or his reaction to your move is always the same.

Personally, I use the induce a bluff move mostly on the river. The other streets you have to play with a little more style because that is when you are going to push him off a weak/nothing hand most easily. If he made it to the river with nothing he will probably try one more time with it. On the river you should be inducing bluffs when the only hand you can beat is a bluff i.e. Ace high or pocket deuces. You should be value betting and maybe check raising your hands classified as good and up.
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  #10  
Old 03-04-2005, 05:40 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Sklansky: you want aggressive players to bluff more...

Thanks Brom,

That makes a lot more sense: trying to induce a bluff on the river when you have a marginal hand and a bluff is about the only thing you can beat. Cripes, I have been checking the flop on [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Regarding your comment about picking up a betting pattern, he limps the button every time, and every time I check, he pot bets, forcing me to fold.

I have tried calling a few bets, but basically, if I don't show strength with a raise of my own, he is betting out.

I am going back to betting the flop from EP with pairs and strong draws to try and push him off some hands, and do a little check raising with better holdings.

That makes a lot more sense. Shows you what I get for getting too liberal with something I read...
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