Hearts

[Al Mirpuri]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're bored and you want to stir up trouble during your next run of bad cards, try asking the table what the "official" rules for hearts are.

Can you throw a heart on the first trick?
Can you lead hearts before they are broken?
Do you have to throw the Qs at the first opportunity?
Is the Jd -10 points?
Do you pass cards? How?

I've never heard so many responses from so many experts. Good luck WSOP hearters!

[/ QUOTE ]

The above is from an old Phatmack post.

I think dealer's immediate left should be able to open a hand of hearts with any card and it should not be whoever holds the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I also think you should be able to lead hearts whenever you wish not only after someone has 'broken' them.

[Lottery Larry]

As a big Hearts fan, I play with the following rules when we play

- 2 of clubs must lead; we like to pass it to each other
- A heart or the Queen of spades can be thrown on the first trick
- Jack diamonds is -10
- You are not trapped into throwing the Queen if you aren't following suit.

To me that gives the best mix of skill and luck and gives you a chance to win if you get unlucky in a hold hand.

We pass left, right, across and then hold. 5-handed we play L,R, Double left, DR, hold.

Why do you like your rule about left of the dealer? Is this your poker background talking?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

OK.

I like hearts. I have played much. So I'll offer my "expoit" advice!

You cannot lead hearts till they have been cut. The 2c must open on the first trick. You can throw a heart on the first trick if you have no clubs and decide to break hearts. The Jd is nothing, it's just a diamond. You do not have to play the Qs at first opportunity, as long as you are not reniging by not playing it. Passing cards varies by house rules.

On yahoo I believe you pass two to the left on the first round, two to the right on the second round, two across on the third round, and no pass on the fourth round, tho I am not going to go play right now to verify my potentially faulty memory.

If you are REALLY a death-defying card player...

try playing hearts with a pinochle double deck (tens through aces, played in the same manner as pinochle, tens beat J,Q,K, first ace takes it, etc, but with otherwise hearts rules). Queens of spades are worth ten, hearts are one, and shooting the moon is sixty.

You WILL be weeping and gnashing teeth before the game is up!

al

[Al Mirpuri]

The thought was that to give a player the maximum chance of shooting the moon he should be allowed to lead off from a fistful of hearts if that helped his game plan. The reasoning behind not having to wait for hearts to be broken was similar. You could have a shoot the moon hand and because you are not allowed to lead hearts someone discards a heart on someone else's lead and a shoot the moon hand has become totally redundant. I think the number of shoot the moon hands - already few in number - become even smaller with these two rules in effect.

I really liked the idea of passing on the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and then playing a heart or the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on it. I was thinking of a version that did not allow point cards to be played on the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] as the opening lead.

I also think the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is better than the T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] as the positive card as you are more likely to be able to win it if you are dealt it.

I also agree with you that the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] should not have to be discarded at the first opportunity. A player should be allowed to pick his victim based on the game score.

[Iceman]

The following rules maximize skill:

"Can you throw a heart on the first trick?"

Yes, or the Qs.

"Can you lead hearts before they are broken?"

No.

"Do you have to throw the Qs at the first opportunity?"

No.

"Is the Jd -10 points?"

Yes. Otherwise the whole game is about losing tricks unless there's a shoot attempt.

"Do you pass cards? How? "

No keeper hands. 3 left the first hand, 3 across the second hand, and 3 right the third hand, repeat.

"I've never heard so many responses from so many experts. Good luck WSOP hearters!"

Note that tournaments often use rules that increase the luck factor.

"I think dealer's immediate left should be able to open a hand of hearts with any card and it should not be whoever holds the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]."

When the 2c has to lead, there's a lot of strategy with respect to whether to keep or get rid of clubs in the pass. Without that, the club suit essentially becomes pointless.

"I also think you should be able to lead hearts whenever you wish not only after someone has 'broken' them."

That would make shoots much easier, so I would avoid it. That way you could easily shoot with the highest hearts in your hand. Otherwise, even if you have the AKQJ of hearts you have to worry about a heart being played in a trick of another suit and have to keep high cards across the board, risking a high chance of getting the queen if your shoot fails.

[Phat Mack]

The thought was that to give a player the maximum chance of shooting the moon he should be allowed to lead off from a fistful of hearts if that helped his game plan.

That's why I don't care for the idea. With the 2c lead, it requires more skill to run them, and I am all for requiring the maximum amount of skill for the game.

I think requiring the Qc to be thrown at the first opportunity is a club rule designed to promote harmony. I don't like it. Hearts is essentially a game of collusion, with loyalties and partnerships changing with each trick. Anything inhibiting free play is detrimental to the game.

Any Barbu players out there? Barbu is Hearts on steroids. Here's a link:

http://www.pagat.com/reverse/barbu.html

[Al Mirpuri]

I also think that the best rule concerning shooting the moon points is that which allows the shoot the moon player to deduct 26 points from his game score or add 26 points onto all the over players's game scores.

Also, over the years I have read various authors stating that the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] should be valued less than 13 points. I have read of 5 points and 7 points suggested for the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Is everyone happy with the value of the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or does anyone play it with a value of less than 13 points?

[Lottery Larry]

I agree- the option to give or subtract points is best- unless you like short games.

I'd stick with 13 points for the Queen- it changes play and strategy a lot without the big penalty, especially with the Jd.

[Lottery Larry]

"I really liked the idea of passing on the 2c and then playing a heart or the Qc on it. I was thinking of a version that did not allow point cards to be played on the 2c as the opening lead. "

No, that is the wimpy MS Hearts rule. Allow for the glee of passing the 2c and then dropping the bomb on some poor fool with the 3c.

"I also think the Jd is better than the Td as the positive card as you are more likely to be able to win it if you are dealt it. "

I agree. Qd is too high- you should risk eating the Qs by needing to pull out three higher diamonds.

[Lottery Larry]

I agree with you on the 2c rule

One comment about this "I think requiring the Qc to be thrown at the first opportunity is a club rule designed to promote harmony. I don't like it. Hearts is essentially a game of collusion, with loyalties and partnerships changing with each trick. Anything inhibiting free play is detrimental to the game."

The only problem we've run into is when one fool in particular, who decided that he had no chance of winning or just because he enjoyed being a jerk, would decide that YOU were his intended loser of the game and he would save the Queen just for you.
You should learn to deal with a headhunter, just like poker, not wimp out with the "must lead queen" rule.